Transcript - Tyrone L. Robinson Interview
(note - there may be typos in this transcript since it was done fairly quickly)
Martin: Let's start off. Just tell us your name, tell us a little bit about your acting career. How did you get into acting and what would you say are one or two of your biggest accomplishments to date?
Tyrone: My name is Tyrone L. Robinson. I got into acting when I was a teenager actually in my hometown in North Carolina. I saw a show when I was like 10 and it blew my mind. It was a community theater production and I just wanted to know how those people got to be up on stage. So I kinda got hooked immediately. I've done a couple of Broadway National Tours, which I'm proud of; they allowed me to pay the bills for a good number of years, which is great. I think sustaining myself as an actor for more than 10 years has been a big accomplishment. I think also being adaptable. I came to New York initially thinking I wanted to be in Broadway musicals and that was it and just be in the chorus and background. Now I'm consistently playing roles, not on Broadway yet, but in different theaters all over the country. So I think that's a pretty big accomplishment. I've been adaptive, allowed myself to learn more about my craft as an actor and just grow.
Martin: Tell us a little bit more about those two accomplishments that you could say, having that consistent run and then also being adaptable and changing and everything. What factors contributed most towards accomplishing or getting those accomplishments?
Tyrone: First of all, I should clarify. I do Broadway musicals and also do plays because I sing and also act. I’m much more likely to get a musical like the Wiz or Wicked or one of those kinds of things. I did the Book of Mormon, I did Lion King. So those two shows specifically I had the look for it. You've got to say that's like 70% of, of getting any job, television, film or stage. I think nowadays it's having the right look. That was definitely it. I always found that whenever I booked something like that, I was always in a mode of work, meaning, literally, when I got the call telling me that I got the Book of Mormon, I was walking into a rehearsal studio to rehearse for another audition that I had. So I was taking acting classes three times a week, I was in a workflow, I was in a state of trying to just become a better actor, become a better artist, and then those opportunities sorta came while I was in that workflow. So I would definitely say that contributed to it. I think also too there's a tiny bit of luck I think that's involved, just being in the right place at the right time. A lot of the shows that I do are long running shows. So they're shows that people will get cast in and then they'll stay for two years, three years, four years. So it just happens to be that somebody leaves the show and it makes a spot available. I think for TV it's a little different cause TV is more cyclical. But there's a little bit of being in the right place right time and being prepared. That helps.
Martin: Let's talk about how you promote and market yourself. What are some of the things that you do on a daily or weekly basis to get paid acting work?
Tyrone: I think right now I'm in a really prime position because I feel right now I have the best team that I've ever had before. When I say my team, I mean my voice teacher, my acting teacher, acting coach, vocal coach, nutritionist and then obviously my agent. I have a great agent in LA. I have a great manager here in New York and I have an agent in Atlanta as well. I just talked to my agent in Atlanta this morning. I say all that to say staying in contact with my team is important. I was out doing a show that I just got back from doing this morning out of town. Before I got back I was emailing everybody on my team like, "Hey you guys can I come into the office for a visit? Can I come say hello?" So staying in contact with my team, the people that are constantly looking out for work for me, for opportunities for me to audition for, keeping them abreast of what I'm doing so they always know that I'm continuing to work on my end. Then I'll check Actors' Equity, which is the stage actors and stage managers union, professional union. They have a website that you can access once you become a member. I look there for auditions, whenever I have time that I know I'm going to be able to go to auditions. So I do that. I run every day. I didn't eat very healthy today, but I try to eat healthy so that I stay in the best shape that I can and get in even better shape. I'm just kind of actively, always trying to improve. Every day I try to do a little bit and a little bit more to get better.
Martin: One follow up question right now. You mentioned your team, now you have like a vocal coach, singing coach, all these different coaches and different people that you work with. I want you to tell us two different things. One, an actor who's listening to this might be like, oh shoot, that sounds really expensive. Like, how do you have so many people? But two, what is the kind of cost that someone's looking at to have that? Also why is it so worth it? Like, what's the value that you get out of having those people?
Tyrone: That's a really good question. I don't go to those people every week. These are people who I work with whenever for instance, if I have an audition for a Broadway show. I'm going to go to my voice teacher and if it's a song that I have to learn, I'll work with my voice teacher on the song. I work with my vocal coach on the acting and just the storytelling of the song. That's just an example. My voice teacher is $100 an hour. Some voice teachers are more, I have friends who study with a voice teacher that's like $300 an hour. That's way out of my price range and I feel my teacher gives me everything I need. She's $100 an hour and I'll go to her usually every other week. For me it's invaluable because I'm not going to be competitive. I'm not going to be the most competitive that I can be if my voice is not in tip top shape. I'm glad you asked that. I was just reminded, the show that I just did was a world premiere play. They had been working on it for four years, workshopping and workshopping it. I got cast in the actual world premiere production and I literally had people telling me after the show, "Your voice is butter man, your voice is awesome!" really complimenting my voice. I grew up never having people say I was the best singer. I grew up always feeling like I had to work harder on my voice cause I wasn't really one of those naturally talented like riffing American Idol type people. So I've had to work on my voice for years and I've had the same voice teacher for five years and she's helped my voice grow to the point now where I feel like people are really noticing it. So it's invaluable.
Martin: So you recommend that actors who are really wanting to move their career forward, that they need to bring people like that on to their team?
Tyrone: Absolutely. Absolutely. We can't do it ourselves. A lot of people go to really amazing conservatories or colleges for acting. They get a BFA in acting or musical theater or whatever. They get to New York City and realize that they're in a sea of people who have the same background, same experience and some people will have a lot of credits. You're talking about New York City, LA, Atlanta, everybody goes to those places to get work. So if you're going to one of those cities, especially Chicago, Seattle, you're going to be competing against people who are at the top of the game. So you want to be your absolute best. Also, always take the attitude when I'm auditioning that I'm not auditioning against the guy sitting beside me in the waiting room. I'm auditioning against myself. I absolutely am working to do my best work. If I do that, then I don't worry about whether I got it or not, I can't control that anyway.
Martin: So the next question is what are one or two of your biggest goals in your acting career and what are the things you're most excited to move towards? Which one or two goals are the most exciting for you to move towards in your acting career right now?
Tyrone: I want to do a role in a Broadway show, that's for sure, cause I've done ensemble stuff in Broadway tours, but I want it to do a role in a Broadway show or multiple Broadway shows. I want to be on a network television show, I have the talent to do that, so I want to do that. Especially the Broadway and network television show because there's so much content happening in New York City. I want to be able to stay home, stay in New York and do the highest level of work that I can consistently.
Martin: Thinking about those two goals, having a role in the network television show, getting a role on a Broadway show. What are some specific steps that you've been taking or will be taking to reach those goals?
Tyrone: Well, the Tony Awards are next week, so I predict Hadestown is going to sweep. So I've been learning the shows that I really would like to be a part of, getting to know the music, getting to know who's a part of it. Do I know people? I know a lot of people who are in some of these shows that were parts of some of these shows. So friends of mine are doing it already. I've literally made a list of the roles that I would like to go for. I've gone through and looked at what shows are running on Broadway right now and I've made a list of the roles that I would like to take in one of those shows whenever they become available. So that's one thing, targeting the specific roles that I am right for and that I can do. Consistently staying on top of my game. If you're a musical theater actor for Broadway, you've got to have a musical theater book, audition book and that's your book with all your songs in it that you use for your auditions. So I'm going through my book of audition songs and I'm revising it. Again, adaptability. Like I'm looking at like I used that song all last year and maybe I got three call backs with it, but I didn't actually book a show with it, so I'm getting rid of it. So revising my book, revising my tools that I use for auditions so that I'm always working at the most optimal level.
Martin: We actually talked a little bit about two specific things in my last interview with Eric. He was talking about that whole idea and was talking about it with headshots where if you have a headshot that everybody's like, "Wow, this headshot is great, but it's not booking you work. You're not actually getting jobs or getting those opportunities." He's like, "It's time to look at getting a new headshot." Even if your songs, people are complimenting you on, they're not working. Actors need to be aware of that and you need to understand the difference between something that people like and something that actually works. Then we had also talked about the other thing that you were discussing, which was just the targeting specific roles. Now he was actually talking about how he tends to look for specific roles and then he finds the casting directors or the agents or the companies that are surrounding those roles and figures out where those people are going to be in terms of what workshops are going to be a part of and he goes there. Do you do similar stuff like that?
Tyrone: That's how I got my Law and Order episode. That's absolutely how I got the Law and Order episode. I did sort of do it similarly, but I didn't do all the background work to know that this particular casting director was on that specific show. But I went to a class that this casting director held. He happened to be the casting director for Law and Order: SVU. Loved the work that I did in the scene work that I did in the class, complimented it and literally the next week called me in for a role on Law and Order. I went in, read the scene with him and then he was like, okay, go upstairs. I went upstairs and literally on the couch in front of me was Dick Wolf, the director of the episode and the writer of the episode. So I literally auditioned for Dick Wolf on the spot, that same day, booked the show that night, they called me that night to tell me that I booked it and I think within two weeks I was shooting it. So I did get it through taking a class with the casting director. I think that's extremely valuable, especially for television because with theater we can go to Equity chorus calls, we can go to Equity principle auditions, we can go to open calls. There's all kinds of ways that you can get seen for Broadway shows and for regional theater shows all over the country. For TV and film, you have to have an agent or somebody who's going to get you in the room for those casting directors and/or you have to go and literally just pay or take the classes with those guys. You get good information too. You get to know what they like, what they don't like, what they gravitate toward. But you always want to be able to go in there and do your best work. I would say don't go into those sessions in front of casting directors if you're not ready to kill it. Do the best work you can in front of them. So they call you in.
Martin: As a follow up question to those classes with casting directors... You're saying that they're very important, they're very valuable. Some actors and some people believe that they're kind of like a waste of money or scam, some of them. So what do you say to people like that? Is there a way to know which classes are valuable and which are scams? Do you have any information on that?
Tyrone: That's a really good question. I won't name specific studios, because I don't really know which ones are, and even if I did I wouldn't name them. To my knowledge, the two that I particularly look at are reputable and you just know from their reputation. In New York City at least I think word is out on ones that aren't, that people just go to to make a quick buck. I think for TV casting directors as well, I don't really know as much about TV as I do about theater. But I think for the TV casting directors they're there because they do have information and I think the last thing or the worst thing you're going to get is more information and get some face time with them for 40 bucks or whatever. So I don't think that that would be a waste. Even if you don't get called in right away afterward, you'll always be in front of mind. Also, I mean the other thing is through going through a couple of those workshops in those classes the question always gets asked, "How can we keep in contact with you, casting director or person of power?" A lot of them, I've never heard somebody say, "Don't contact me." They'll say drop a postcard in the mail or drop a short letter, whatever in the mail. So in getting in front of them that gains you access to drop a thing in the mail and be like, "Hey, I'm doing this play or I'll be on this episode of Scandal next week or whatever, check me out." So it gives you a chance to interface with them. They get to know you a little bit. So I think it's always going to be valuable.
Martin: So our next question, what would you say is your advice on auditioning? What would you say would be like one, two, maybe three top tips that you can give to an actor who struggles to get called back after auditioning?
Tyrone: Got two right away. The first one is breathe and I'm saying that up front, cause I have to remind myself of that. Literally, I've been auditioning for years now and I've been very fortunate to do some good work and do some things that are cool. But I still forget to breathe when I'm waiting to go in and audition and even when I'm in the audition room. So breathe, just that, just don't forget to breathe. The other thing is when you're waiting to go into the room, when you're in the waiting area, that's not the time to be trying to work on your material. You want to go in prepared, go in ready to go, ready to work and then just relax, relax in the waiting room as much as that sounds like yeah, right. Whatever. Relax. If you're going to audition for major TV shows. But you want to be prepared, you want to have your work done before you get to the casting director's office or to the audition place, wherever that is, studio so that you can just go in confident, prepared, relaxed. Then let the work that you've done to prepare, let that kick in when you walk into the room. I'll be honest with you, I'll just go and put it out there, man. I died at an audition and it was because I psyched myself out. It was a TV audition and it was a small role too, it wasn't even a big thing. But I prepared, prepared, prepared, got there the day of for the audition. I was in the waiting room and just psyched myself out and started doing the whole running lines over and over again.
I walked in the room and the casting director and I had some small talk for maybe 30 seconds, 45 seconds and then he was like, "Okay, let's go." Here we go. Boom. And I could not remember the first line cause I just psyched myself out and I wasn't breathing. After that happened, it was just downhill from there. So I've had that experience, I can speak from experience, you got to breathe, you got to just relax and let the work that you do before you show up, let that be what you're carrying into the room. I think the other thing I would just say is walk in confident, the casting directors want to see confidence. I know that for sure. I've heard people say, don't walk in as the character, don't try to be the character when you walk into the room. Just walk in as yourself, be pleasant. If it's a kind of broody kind of mean character and you have to hold onto that emotionally or whatever, that's cool. But you don't have to walk in with that attitude, be yourself with the casting director first.
Martin: I like this advice that you're giving here. I guess I just have a specific question off of that. Some actors, and obviously this isn't everybody, but it's hard. You go out and you get nervous about screwing it up and then if you do screw it up, you start beating yourself up or feeling really bad about it. So what would you say to actors who kind of like have that and they're dealing with it?
Tyrone: The anxiety. That is so hard. I've booked jobs when I didn't do the perfect audition. I’ve booked jobs when I didn't say all the words right. That's one thing I'll say about it is, if you had the look and the quality that they're looking for in the essence of the character and you can actually deliver a realistic performance that they're connecting with and they can see that you can actually connect with another actor and be truthful. I think those are the three or four main things that they're looking for to at least give you a call back and/or maybe even just book you for the job. Yeah, I've booked jobs when I didn't say all the words right.
Martin: Do you feel like it's more important for an actor to play characters that are authentically who they are? Because some actors worry about like, "Oh, I don't want to box myself into playing roles that I'm best suited for. I want to do everything." I've always advised people that it's best to find a brand that's most authentically them and a look that's them. But what do you have to say on that in more detail?
Tyrone: Absolutely. I agree. I'm six foot four, 240'ish pounds. There's no way they're going to see me for the little, like, nerdy guy, it's just not going to happen. I'm a pretty fit guy, I could do better. I'll tell you the last three auditions that I had. One was for a large brooding like father type character who was mean and mad at his son for getting kicked out of school. I auditioned for this other role and I kind of read it as kind of he's a very wealthy guy, very high powered. But his wife was divorcing him. His wife was divorcing him so he's pretty bitter. I just had an audition that was talking to my agent in Atlanta. about She sent me in for this thing, not a love symbol or sex symbol, kind of a comedy, but like kind of Geeky comedy type character. But a big guy, he's an ex-football coach. So those are the roles that I go in for. I can't deny that, I can't deny who I am. I'm a big guy, so they're not going to ever send me in for small guy stuff. The best thing that I can do is own that and then try to live as authentically as I can in that when I'm auditioning. I get it. I'm also still an actor and I love taking transformative roles on. The show that I just did I played like six different characters. So in the course of one show, I played a bunch of different people.
That was amazing and fun and exhausting. But when you're auditioning, especially I think for television and film and when you're new and people don't know you, especially the casting directors don't know you, I think it's better for you to identify who you are and what you are in the industry and if you need help with that, get help with that. Because some people cannot honestly tell what their type is and you might need somebody to help you assess that. Then own it and go in and audition for those roles. Don't try to, you're not going to be Meryl Streep when you just get to New York or LA. They have to get to know you and get to know your work and then they'll start calling you in and seeing you for different things and considering you for different things. Also if you can do small films or independent films or student films or things that can allow you to get in and show a different side of yourself then do those things and have those on your actor reel because those things will allow you to show a casting director, "Oh, he can do nerdy or he can do vulnerable. He can do angry. He can do a lot of different things."
Martin: The next thing is on an agent. Now you said you have a manager and an agent, is that correct?
Tyrone: I have two agents and a manager.
Martin: First if you can briefly explain the difference for people because we didn't really talk about that in the other interview. But the difference between an agent and a manager. Then how did you actually go about getting an agent and what would your advice be for other actors looking to do the same?
Tyrone: Sure. The real easy difference between an agent and a manager is that an agent is able to submit you and then negotiate for you on your behalf for projects across unions, Equity, SAG-AFTRA, if they are members of that union. Managers, there are certain jurisdictions, they can't really submit within certain jurisdictions. Agents have to submit you in certain places like the southeast and all that. So that's one big difference. Also managers sometimes have different commission amounts that they will take from you versus the standard 10% that an agent will take. As my understanding. Managers I think generally work in smaller size client lists. So this manager that I work with, I think they may have a hundred people, maybe 150, which is a pretty large amount for a manager, but they work pretty closely with each one of their clients and really cultivate relationships with each one of their clients.
Whereas an agent, I think will have many more clients and it would be more of a just they're submitting you over and over again for projects, just see what hits. I got each one differently. The manager I got um, through my vocal coach actually. Crazy enough, he lived across the hall from one of the managers in the office. In his apartment building. The manager lived across the hall. I was in a session with him and I was like, "I'm looking for a new agent." I just mentioned it to him just in talking to him. He's like, you know what Christopher, talk to Christopher and he got me a meeting with this manager. Went to the office, the manager loved me and we started talking about signing right away. The Atlanta agent came, it took a long time. I had been submitting to agents in the southeast for over a year to be honest with you, sending emails and head shots and resumes because I knew that a lot of filming happened down there. I'm originally from North Carolina, it took about a year, year and a half before an agent even responded. This agency responded and was looking for new clients that fit my type and we talked on the phone, had a nice interview for about 20 minutes. She's aware that I live in New York City, but that I have a residence or I have people that I can stay with in North Carolina if I book something down there or Atlanta. So we started working together. Then my agent in LA came to see me in a show in Dallas that I did. She approached me after the show. She came to see one of her clients who was in the show with me in Dallas. We clicked, we got along really well and she started to represent me. It's a pretty big agency, so I'm excited about having representation out in LA.
Martin: We talked about the actual, literal differences between agents and managers, but would you say that it's like for some actors their biggest goal is to get an agent right now and they’re like, "If I have an agent, everything will change," and it's kinda like their view. So what would you say to something like that? Is a manager just as good as having an agent? Does it really depend? What goes into that?
Tyrone: I talk to my manager more than I talk to my agent. When I get new head shots done, I will send those to my manager and take my manager's advice first on which ones are the best for what they have going on and what they're looking for. I can call my manager on weekends, I can text him and get a reply back like within a few minutes. Agents don’t always work on the weekends. I just feel like I have more access to my manager and my manager I usually will ask them more kind of, not intimate questions but more… Another quick example, I made an audition tape recently where I just as an experiment wanted to try taping it at two different studios. So I just taped at two different studios. Literally I sent both takes to my manager and was like, "Which one do you like the best? Which one would you send to casting?" My manager was able to give me feedback on the two different takes. So that's important to have somebody who can kind of be your right hand man, right hand woman, whatever as you're trying to navigate. The only thing I will say is that a manager, you're probably not going to go to get a manager if you don't have credits, if you don't have some kind of background or if you don't come recommended by somebody that they represent. Agents I think are going to be a little easier to get in the door with right off the bat because they can see potential in you. I think managers also want to build you up and help you build your career. But I think agents will probably be more likely to take on someone who's not as experienced yet.
Martin: What do you feel should be a better goal for an actor, to get an agent or manager?
Tyrone: For somebody who doesn't have either.?
Martin: Yeah. Or they're just kind of doing different things?
Tyrone: I think if you, if you just moved to LA or if you just moved to New York or Atlanta and you don't have representation. It's a really good question because when I think back to how I got my very first agent, I got my very first agent by going to literally ballet classes. I used to take a ballet class every Saturday morning and one of the assistants who worked in that office saw me in ballet. She took the same class and she came up to me and was like, are you an actor? We started talking and that's how it happened. It was really weird. I wasn't looking for an agent at the time really. So I would say just try to cultivate work anyway that you can. I think no matter what you want to send people something that they can look at and see potential there. Cause I think that's the number one thing because it is a business and they are interested in who's going to help me to make money to keep the office going, keep money coming in. It's really hard too, I think if you don't have credits or experience, I don't know if a manager would be able to help you much because managers really helped promote actors to the next step of their career.But I could be just talking out of my ass, I don't really know. I think each person has to decide what's best for them. So I don't want to say which one. I think if I had to do it all over again, I think the way I did it was right. Having an agent first because they're going to be just submitting you submitting and hopefully managers are about that too. But I feel like the manager has to have something to work with.
Martin: So you feel like in general an agent is going to be sending you out for lots and lots of different things, which is good for getting some work, but a manager's going to help you kind of refine your career and get yourself directed in the right way to move through that?
Tyrone: That's been my experience. Just real quick the other big difference is, this manager, whenever I first started working with him, he literally said like, "Okay, I like you man. What do you want to do?" There was like a silence for a minute. Whereas I think an agent would be like, "Okay, yeah I see you doing commercials and you can sing so I see you doing Broadway. Maybe we'll get you in for some TV shows or you'd be perfect for Netflix." I feel like an agent will tell you what they're going to submit you for or they'll just submit you for a bunch of stuff and see where you book. A manager, I think, at least it's been my experience that my manager is interested in what I want to do. I talked earlier about targeting specific roles. I can send that list to my manager and be like, "Hey let's be on the lookout for these five shows when they're looking for people," and they'll do that. They'll be able to look out. It's happened more than a few times that literally I'll send a request to my manager and say I know this casting director, they liked me a lot and within like days I'll have an audition for that project. My manager would go to work and make it happen.
Martin: It sounds kind of like what we teach in the classes and programs and stuff that I've put together. Basically the idea of you know what you would most enjoy doing and what your personality type is. So when you're talking, you have a type, which is kind of like what you physically look like, what people see you as. Then you've got kind of an archetype almost in a sense, which is kind of your personality and what you most enjoy doing. Like what type of characters you play. So let's say you look like a police officer. But your archetype is the comedian. So now you're a funny police officer, the funny police officer is kind of your brand. So the manager can kind of help be like, "You look like the police officer," and you can be like, "Well, I'm funny and I like to joke around a lot." Then the manager will send you out for those funny type of cop roles.
Tyrone: Yeah, they'll be like go to UCB and take some improv classes or go to The Pit. They'll help you even go to the classes that you should go to and point you toward the right directions of people you should study with.
Martin: Yeah it points you in the right direction of where you should go next and what people you should connect with and all of that based on that brand you can come up with together. Before we move into our final section here, I just wanted to ask you, tell us briefly, you did a short film called Un{H}armed. Tell us a little bit about your film. What inspired you to do it and how that's related to your acting career. Has it helped you at all? Has It connected you with anybody? Do you recommend that other actors pursue their own projects outside of acting?
Tyrone: Thank you for mentioning that. I was in Sacramento, California last March and I was doing The Book of Mormon National Tour and literally the morning that we were getting ready to leave or it was the day before, Stephon Clark, a young African American man, 22 years old was shot by police officers out in Sacramento and I was in Sacramento the day that it happened. We were getting ready to leave a day or two later and I was just kind of numb. This young guy, he was innocent. He didn't have a gun or anything. He was standing in his family's backyard and the police just shot the wrong guy, they thought that he was somebody else. I just thought, "Wow I've got to do something. I've got to write something or tell the story and try and figure out a way to help bring some attention to the issue." So I mulled on it for a while and then eventually this idea for the film came to me. It’s short and we've been screened at I think 10 different film festivals now, nine or ten different film festivals all over the country. It's been incredible reception to it. We screened in the New York Short Film Festival, the Harlem International Film Festival a couple of weeks ago. Going to be in the New York Hudson Film Festival.
So all these film festivals are embracing the film and showing it. So it's bringing awareness to the issue. Also I think by doing that it's pointing people toward all of us who were involved in making the film. So it has allowed me to meet different people who are involved in filmmaking at different levels. I've had people contact me who live in LA, who work in different aspects of filmmaking, cinematographers and things like that. In the editing process of the film I had a lot of people who were musicians and things like that who were hitting me up on Kickstarter, which is where we raised money for it because they were just interested in working on the film. So that allowed me to meet more people who were just peripherally involved. But I think as an actor, it's allowed me to network and meet people who are in the field who are actually out making films because going through all these festivals, now I've had interaction through email with the guy who runs the Harlem International Film Festival. They get films from all over the world and they feature them and major stars go to this film festival. So things like that, just getting connected with these people in a way that is significant because I had something to say and the message is getting out there and hopefully people are talking about the issue. But at the same time, it is also connecting me with these people.
Martin: Do you have some sort of strategy to keep in touch with people? Because right now you're in touch with all of these people but five years from now, if you're doing another project or something, do you have any sort of strategy in place?
Tyrone: I'm going to be honest, I don't really beyond email. I think one way to do it is through considering the way that we initially meet, if it's face to face at an actual event if there's a way that I can be a part of that event again or be a part of that organization again so that we continue to have face time, I think that's really valuable. One of the things that I learned recently, like within like the last couple of years really and the saying is, "How can I add value to what you're doing?" And it really is a real thing. It's also a real way to connect with people and try and understand what are you working on and how can I add value to that? Is there anything you're doing that I can add value to? I just got a text today. One of the girls on tour with on The Book of Mormon tour, she has her own web series and it's a huge success. It's called Working Out the Kinks. They've won awards and been featured on all these different film festivals or web series festivals all over the country. While we were working together on The Book of Mormon I said to her if there's anything I can do on your web series, let me know, I'll do anything. She had me on two episodes be the script supervisor.
We just happened to be on a break here in New York. She was filming and she asked me if I wanted to do it. So I came and did it. She texted me and asked me if I wanted to write on the show, if I would consider like writing a spec episode and be a writer on the show. I mean it's something I've thought about and she knows I'm a writer. I write for comedy as well, but I was interested in her project. I was interested in, "Can I add value to that at all?" That was the whole idea. It wasn't like, "Can I work with you?" It wasn't like me trying to get something from her. It was really how could I add my skills to what she's doing? Her thing’s already a success. I think that's a big thing for people to keep in mind, think about how can you add value to what somebody else is doing? I think people can't help but want to engage with that. If somebody asked me, "How can they add value to what I'm doing?" I would love to talk to them and get engaged with them around that.
Martin: You also did the same thing with us.
Tyrone: Yeah. Cause you guys are doing great stuff!
Martin: The final section here is out of everything that you've done to move your acting career forward, what would you say would be the one or two top things that have had the most impact in moving your career forward?
Tyrone: That's a big question. Let me think about that one. I have to be honest to say that I guess two things come to mind. One is being adaptable. So there came a point where I had been working for like years, five years, six years, and literally I was like, "Okay, I'm getting the same type of stuff over and over again. The same type of work over and over again, or I'm not booking where I want to be booking." So I would keep getting the ensemble guy who understudied the lead guy. Which is fine. It's cool, it's work and I enjoyed doing that work. But after five or six years of being ensemble, ensemble, ensemble, always understudying the lead or understudying the principle guy I said I want to be doing more than that.
So I went back and I studied acting at a conservatory, really got hardcore training, started taking those skills into auditions and then I started booking roles, starting knowing what to do more. So being adaptable and being flexible even after five or six years to be able to say to myself, you got to go back and get more training. Then I think also the second thing that came to mind was looking back at the stuff that I have booked, that gave me a better understanding of how the industry sees me. The industry kind of sees me as a very specific niche type. I'm not just like an African American actor. I'm not just a black actor. I think the industry sees me very specifically as a very ethnic black actor. Meaning I usually play African characters, I usually play like foreign characters. I usually play kind of the dad, the strong father character. The industry sees me that way so that's helpful information for me to have. So I think identifying how I can improve myself helped me to move forward and continue to help me move forward. I think also being honest with myself about how I'm booking and how people are perceiving me in the industry is important for me to be able to have information going forward.
Martin: So to summarize, it sounds like the two most important things in your career so far are one, being honest with what your type is and how the industry sees you or being okay with that, which some actors don't want to be and that could be holding them back. The other one honestly just sounds like setting goals for yourself because during that five year period, you just kept on doing the same thing and then you were like, "Hey, this is specifically what I want. What do I have to do to get there?"
Tyrone: Yeah, absolutely.
Martin: If you had to give some advice to an actor stuck at a plateau in their career what would it be? And is there anything that an actor should avoid doing? It's a two part question. You kind of covered a little bit, they can set goals for themselves. Look at their type. Is there anything else or is there anything that they should avoid doing where they might be making a mistake?
Tyrone: If you feel like you're stuck in a rut, which I've totally been there before and may be there again, who knows? I would say consider getting help. Don't stay stuck. There's also the reality that sometimes you just need to take a break. When I say that, I don't mean quit the business. I just mean if you're auditioning every day just kind of beating your head against the wall, just going in for everything, maybe slow down, take a pause and start to become more specific about how you are spending your energy and your resources. Because none of us have unlimited money and time and energy and you know, patience or trying to move ourselves forward. Eventually you're gonna get tired of just chasing the same thing over and over again. So I think get help, meaning seek classes, seek people who can advise you, professionals who you really trust.
Martin: Like we were saying at the beginning, your team.
Tyrone: Yeah, your team. These are people who have known me for a long time. I've been working with them for years and they've helped me to move forward and I trust them. Then I think for what not to do? Don't get upset at yourself and don't blame yourself if you're not doing what you want to be doing yet. Because there are many, many things that go into - particularly speaking about actors - getting cast. I also write now and direct and in both of those disciplines you have much, much more control over sort of your destiny, so to speak. There are many other ways for directors and writers to get work and to get help getting their work out there if they're good, if they're talented. But for actors you can be the best trained, best looking, blah, blah, blah blah and things just might not go your way a few times or over a course of time for whatever reason. It's not always in our control. So have patience with yourself and don't beat yourself up. That's the one thing I will say don't do. Cause if you're not where you want to be yet, there's ways to think about and assess your goals. Be honest with yourself. Is that a goal? I couldn't have said 10 years ago, I'm going to be a star on Broadway. I didn't have the credits yet. I didn't have the training yet. People didn't know me yet. So be patient with yourself and don't beat yourself up.
Martin: Was there any mistake that you made looking back on your career? I wish if I hadn't done that or looking back and being like I learned a lot by making that one mistake.
Tyrone: Over the course of my time as an actor, there've been one or two times when I've thought back on someone speaking to me and trying to give mentorship and help that I just didn't pick up on. If you find that someone wants to mentor you in a healthy, positive way and you feel comfortable with it, let people help you. Or somebody who's a senior. I've had more mature actors who are farther along in their career give me advice and that was kind of an open door for mentorship and for trying to get someone on my team who could help me advise me along the way. There've been one or two times I didn't really pick up on it or I really didn't take full advantage of it that I kind of regret. But I am where I am now because I've worked at it and continued to stay with it and I'm happy with where I am. So I feel like I wish I'd had that mentorship and taken advantage of it fully. But you know what you know when you know it. And it takes the time it takes to get to where you are going.
Martin: That's an amazing piece of advice. There's a lot of people, not just actors, but just people in general who when someone gives you feedback or suggest something to you, people instantly want to shut down, especially if the feedback isn't given in the most tactful way. If you can get in the habit of just thanking the person. There was a perfect example just the other day. My Dad was looking at something as I was chatting with him and showed him a page on a website and he's like, what are you using that picture for? That picture looks terrible. Why are you using that photo there? Immediately my first instinct was to be like, "Well, I think it looks fine and I don’t really want your advice." If I said that though, then I'd be shutting down the opportunity for future tips and his advice technically was kind of correct. Usually when criticism hurts, it's because there's some kernel of truth. So instead I stopped myself from saying that. I'm like, "Okay. Alright, fine, I'll write that down. I’ll remove that picture. That's fair advice. Thank you. What else do you think?"
Tyrone: We don't have to, we're all adults. Like you're saying, take the advice, but you don't have to actually use all of it. Or there's always something, like you said, there's always a kernel of truth or something. Like what about the picture drew his attention? Why not anything else? What was it about that? My parents are not performers or artists or anything at all, but they are ready to give all the advice in the world. So I've just gotten to the point over the years where I'm just like, "Okay, yeah, I'll just call Tyler Perry and just get into a Tyler Perry film. Okay, I'll do that. No problem, mom. Yeah, thank you." But I think what she's saying is "He's doing amazing stuff. He's doing all these films and TV shows. So put yourself in a place where you can be in those environments and with people like him." So her advice is sound, even though she has no idea of how people get there. And I actually just auditioned for a Tyler Perry show.
Martin: That's a good piece of advice. You want to make those connections and get those mentors because the people that you surround yourself with are the people who you eventually become. So you need to make sure you surround yourself with people who are actually useful for you. Is there anything else that you'd like to finish up by saying for this?
Tyrone: Yes I'll be brief, but this is important because I'm learning even after doing this for a little while. Have stuff that you do in the meantime when you're not working or even when you are working as an actor. There's nothing more amazing than getting a job as an actor and working with a bunch of other actors who are interesting, who are interested, who read, who travel, who already know things about the world, who know things about other stuff other than acting. There's nothing weirder than working with actors or an actor who only talks about acting. I mean it's one thing to be passionate and we're all passionate about our crafts and about what we do. But be more well-rounded , be well read, have other interests. If it's playing chess or scrabble or whatever, being athletic, whatever it is, sports, be a whole human being. Don't just beat your head over on the wall about auditions all day long. Have a life cause that'll give you a meantime to keep you going when you're not always working. Or when you are working, you'll have other things to kind of cultivate and feed into the work that you're doing.
Martin: Yeah, having that extra life and spending your time on other things kind of also makes you happier and then you do better work in your auditions.
Tyrone: Imagine that! "I can’t be a happy actor." What are you talking about then? How am I going to be like being a "mean brooding actor?" No. Like Meryl Streep, I'm sure she gardens and does a bunch of other stuff. She has a family. Octavia Spencer does other stuff besides produce and act in films. I'm sure.
Martin: That is for the most part, pretty much everything that we wanted to cover here. This was amazing. Thank you for being on this interview!
Martin: Let's start off. Just tell us your name, tell us a little bit about your acting career. How did you get into acting and what would you say are one or two of your biggest accomplishments to date?
Tyrone: My name is Tyrone L. Robinson. I got into acting when I was a teenager actually in my hometown in North Carolina. I saw a show when I was like 10 and it blew my mind. It was a community theater production and I just wanted to know how those people got to be up on stage. So I kinda got hooked immediately. I've done a couple of Broadway National Tours, which I'm proud of; they allowed me to pay the bills for a good number of years, which is great. I think sustaining myself as an actor for more than 10 years has been a big accomplishment. I think also being adaptable. I came to New York initially thinking I wanted to be in Broadway musicals and that was it and just be in the chorus and background. Now I'm consistently playing roles, not on Broadway yet, but in different theaters all over the country. So I think that's a pretty big accomplishment. I've been adaptive, allowed myself to learn more about my craft as an actor and just grow.
Martin: Tell us a little bit more about those two accomplishments that you could say, having that consistent run and then also being adaptable and changing and everything. What factors contributed most towards accomplishing or getting those accomplishments?
Tyrone: First of all, I should clarify. I do Broadway musicals and also do plays because I sing and also act. I’m much more likely to get a musical like the Wiz or Wicked or one of those kinds of things. I did the Book of Mormon, I did Lion King. So those two shows specifically I had the look for it. You've got to say that's like 70% of, of getting any job, television, film or stage. I think nowadays it's having the right look. That was definitely it. I always found that whenever I booked something like that, I was always in a mode of work, meaning, literally, when I got the call telling me that I got the Book of Mormon, I was walking into a rehearsal studio to rehearse for another audition that I had. So I was taking acting classes three times a week, I was in a workflow, I was in a state of trying to just become a better actor, become a better artist, and then those opportunities sorta came while I was in that workflow. So I would definitely say that contributed to it. I think also too there's a tiny bit of luck I think that's involved, just being in the right place at the right time. A lot of the shows that I do are long running shows. So they're shows that people will get cast in and then they'll stay for two years, three years, four years. So it just happens to be that somebody leaves the show and it makes a spot available. I think for TV it's a little different cause TV is more cyclical. But there's a little bit of being in the right place right time and being prepared. That helps.
Martin: Let's talk about how you promote and market yourself. What are some of the things that you do on a daily or weekly basis to get paid acting work?
Tyrone: I think right now I'm in a really prime position because I feel right now I have the best team that I've ever had before. When I say my team, I mean my voice teacher, my acting teacher, acting coach, vocal coach, nutritionist and then obviously my agent. I have a great agent in LA. I have a great manager here in New York and I have an agent in Atlanta as well. I just talked to my agent in Atlanta this morning. I say all that to say staying in contact with my team is important. I was out doing a show that I just got back from doing this morning out of town. Before I got back I was emailing everybody on my team like, "Hey you guys can I come into the office for a visit? Can I come say hello?" So staying in contact with my team, the people that are constantly looking out for work for me, for opportunities for me to audition for, keeping them abreast of what I'm doing so they always know that I'm continuing to work on my end. Then I'll check Actors' Equity, which is the stage actors and stage managers union, professional union. They have a website that you can access once you become a member. I look there for auditions, whenever I have time that I know I'm going to be able to go to auditions. So I do that. I run every day. I didn't eat very healthy today, but I try to eat healthy so that I stay in the best shape that I can and get in even better shape. I'm just kind of actively, always trying to improve. Every day I try to do a little bit and a little bit more to get better.
Martin: One follow up question right now. You mentioned your team, now you have like a vocal coach, singing coach, all these different coaches and different people that you work with. I want you to tell us two different things. One, an actor who's listening to this might be like, oh shoot, that sounds really expensive. Like, how do you have so many people? But two, what is the kind of cost that someone's looking at to have that? Also why is it so worth it? Like, what's the value that you get out of having those people?
Tyrone: That's a really good question. I don't go to those people every week. These are people who I work with whenever for instance, if I have an audition for a Broadway show. I'm going to go to my voice teacher and if it's a song that I have to learn, I'll work with my voice teacher on the song. I work with my vocal coach on the acting and just the storytelling of the song. That's just an example. My voice teacher is $100 an hour. Some voice teachers are more, I have friends who study with a voice teacher that's like $300 an hour. That's way out of my price range and I feel my teacher gives me everything I need. She's $100 an hour and I'll go to her usually every other week. For me it's invaluable because I'm not going to be competitive. I'm not going to be the most competitive that I can be if my voice is not in tip top shape. I'm glad you asked that. I was just reminded, the show that I just did was a world premiere play. They had been working on it for four years, workshopping and workshopping it. I got cast in the actual world premiere production and I literally had people telling me after the show, "Your voice is butter man, your voice is awesome!" really complimenting my voice. I grew up never having people say I was the best singer. I grew up always feeling like I had to work harder on my voice cause I wasn't really one of those naturally talented like riffing American Idol type people. So I've had to work on my voice for years and I've had the same voice teacher for five years and she's helped my voice grow to the point now where I feel like people are really noticing it. So it's invaluable.
Martin: So you recommend that actors who are really wanting to move their career forward, that they need to bring people like that on to their team?
Tyrone: Absolutely. Absolutely. We can't do it ourselves. A lot of people go to really amazing conservatories or colleges for acting. They get a BFA in acting or musical theater or whatever. They get to New York City and realize that they're in a sea of people who have the same background, same experience and some people will have a lot of credits. You're talking about New York City, LA, Atlanta, everybody goes to those places to get work. So if you're going to one of those cities, especially Chicago, Seattle, you're going to be competing against people who are at the top of the game. So you want to be your absolute best. Also, always take the attitude when I'm auditioning that I'm not auditioning against the guy sitting beside me in the waiting room. I'm auditioning against myself. I absolutely am working to do my best work. If I do that, then I don't worry about whether I got it or not, I can't control that anyway.
Martin: So the next question is what are one or two of your biggest goals in your acting career and what are the things you're most excited to move towards? Which one or two goals are the most exciting for you to move towards in your acting career right now?
Tyrone: I want to do a role in a Broadway show, that's for sure, cause I've done ensemble stuff in Broadway tours, but I want it to do a role in a Broadway show or multiple Broadway shows. I want to be on a network television show, I have the talent to do that, so I want to do that. Especially the Broadway and network television show because there's so much content happening in New York City. I want to be able to stay home, stay in New York and do the highest level of work that I can consistently.
Martin: Thinking about those two goals, having a role in the network television show, getting a role on a Broadway show. What are some specific steps that you've been taking or will be taking to reach those goals?
Tyrone: Well, the Tony Awards are next week, so I predict Hadestown is going to sweep. So I've been learning the shows that I really would like to be a part of, getting to know the music, getting to know who's a part of it. Do I know people? I know a lot of people who are in some of these shows that were parts of some of these shows. So friends of mine are doing it already. I've literally made a list of the roles that I would like to go for. I've gone through and looked at what shows are running on Broadway right now and I've made a list of the roles that I would like to take in one of those shows whenever they become available. So that's one thing, targeting the specific roles that I am right for and that I can do. Consistently staying on top of my game. If you're a musical theater actor for Broadway, you've got to have a musical theater book, audition book and that's your book with all your songs in it that you use for your auditions. So I'm going through my book of audition songs and I'm revising it. Again, adaptability. Like I'm looking at like I used that song all last year and maybe I got three call backs with it, but I didn't actually book a show with it, so I'm getting rid of it. So revising my book, revising my tools that I use for auditions so that I'm always working at the most optimal level.
Martin: We actually talked a little bit about two specific things in my last interview with Eric. He was talking about that whole idea and was talking about it with headshots where if you have a headshot that everybody's like, "Wow, this headshot is great, but it's not booking you work. You're not actually getting jobs or getting those opportunities." He's like, "It's time to look at getting a new headshot." Even if your songs, people are complimenting you on, they're not working. Actors need to be aware of that and you need to understand the difference between something that people like and something that actually works. Then we had also talked about the other thing that you were discussing, which was just the targeting specific roles. Now he was actually talking about how he tends to look for specific roles and then he finds the casting directors or the agents or the companies that are surrounding those roles and figures out where those people are going to be in terms of what workshops are going to be a part of and he goes there. Do you do similar stuff like that?
Tyrone: That's how I got my Law and Order episode. That's absolutely how I got the Law and Order episode. I did sort of do it similarly, but I didn't do all the background work to know that this particular casting director was on that specific show. But I went to a class that this casting director held. He happened to be the casting director for Law and Order: SVU. Loved the work that I did in the scene work that I did in the class, complimented it and literally the next week called me in for a role on Law and Order. I went in, read the scene with him and then he was like, okay, go upstairs. I went upstairs and literally on the couch in front of me was Dick Wolf, the director of the episode and the writer of the episode. So I literally auditioned for Dick Wolf on the spot, that same day, booked the show that night, they called me that night to tell me that I booked it and I think within two weeks I was shooting it. So I did get it through taking a class with the casting director. I think that's extremely valuable, especially for television because with theater we can go to Equity chorus calls, we can go to Equity principle auditions, we can go to open calls. There's all kinds of ways that you can get seen for Broadway shows and for regional theater shows all over the country. For TV and film, you have to have an agent or somebody who's going to get you in the room for those casting directors and/or you have to go and literally just pay or take the classes with those guys. You get good information too. You get to know what they like, what they don't like, what they gravitate toward. But you always want to be able to go in there and do your best work. I would say don't go into those sessions in front of casting directors if you're not ready to kill it. Do the best work you can in front of them. So they call you in.
Martin: As a follow up question to those classes with casting directors... You're saying that they're very important, they're very valuable. Some actors and some people believe that they're kind of like a waste of money or scam, some of them. So what do you say to people like that? Is there a way to know which classes are valuable and which are scams? Do you have any information on that?
Tyrone: That's a really good question. I won't name specific studios, because I don't really know which ones are, and even if I did I wouldn't name them. To my knowledge, the two that I particularly look at are reputable and you just know from their reputation. In New York City at least I think word is out on ones that aren't, that people just go to to make a quick buck. I think for TV casting directors as well, I don't really know as much about TV as I do about theater. But I think for the TV casting directors they're there because they do have information and I think the last thing or the worst thing you're going to get is more information and get some face time with them for 40 bucks or whatever. So I don't think that that would be a waste. Even if you don't get called in right away afterward, you'll always be in front of mind. Also, I mean the other thing is through going through a couple of those workshops in those classes the question always gets asked, "How can we keep in contact with you, casting director or person of power?" A lot of them, I've never heard somebody say, "Don't contact me." They'll say drop a postcard in the mail or drop a short letter, whatever in the mail. So in getting in front of them that gains you access to drop a thing in the mail and be like, "Hey, I'm doing this play or I'll be on this episode of Scandal next week or whatever, check me out." So it gives you a chance to interface with them. They get to know you a little bit. So I think it's always going to be valuable.
Martin: So our next question, what would you say is your advice on auditioning? What would you say would be like one, two, maybe three top tips that you can give to an actor who struggles to get called back after auditioning?
Tyrone: Got two right away. The first one is breathe and I'm saying that up front, cause I have to remind myself of that. Literally, I've been auditioning for years now and I've been very fortunate to do some good work and do some things that are cool. But I still forget to breathe when I'm waiting to go in and audition and even when I'm in the audition room. So breathe, just that, just don't forget to breathe. The other thing is when you're waiting to go into the room, when you're in the waiting area, that's not the time to be trying to work on your material. You want to go in prepared, go in ready to go, ready to work and then just relax, relax in the waiting room as much as that sounds like yeah, right. Whatever. Relax. If you're going to audition for major TV shows. But you want to be prepared, you want to have your work done before you get to the casting director's office or to the audition place, wherever that is, studio so that you can just go in confident, prepared, relaxed. Then let the work that you've done to prepare, let that kick in when you walk into the room. I'll be honest with you, I'll just go and put it out there, man. I died at an audition and it was because I psyched myself out. It was a TV audition and it was a small role too, it wasn't even a big thing. But I prepared, prepared, prepared, got there the day of for the audition. I was in the waiting room and just psyched myself out and started doing the whole running lines over and over again.
I walked in the room and the casting director and I had some small talk for maybe 30 seconds, 45 seconds and then he was like, "Okay, let's go." Here we go. Boom. And I could not remember the first line cause I just psyched myself out and I wasn't breathing. After that happened, it was just downhill from there. So I've had that experience, I can speak from experience, you got to breathe, you got to just relax and let the work that you do before you show up, let that be what you're carrying into the room. I think the other thing I would just say is walk in confident, the casting directors want to see confidence. I know that for sure. I've heard people say, don't walk in as the character, don't try to be the character when you walk into the room. Just walk in as yourself, be pleasant. If it's a kind of broody kind of mean character and you have to hold onto that emotionally or whatever, that's cool. But you don't have to walk in with that attitude, be yourself with the casting director first.
Martin: I like this advice that you're giving here. I guess I just have a specific question off of that. Some actors, and obviously this isn't everybody, but it's hard. You go out and you get nervous about screwing it up and then if you do screw it up, you start beating yourself up or feeling really bad about it. So what would you say to actors who kind of like have that and they're dealing with it?
Tyrone: The anxiety. That is so hard. I've booked jobs when I didn't do the perfect audition. I’ve booked jobs when I didn't say all the words right. That's one thing I'll say about it is, if you had the look and the quality that they're looking for in the essence of the character and you can actually deliver a realistic performance that they're connecting with and they can see that you can actually connect with another actor and be truthful. I think those are the three or four main things that they're looking for to at least give you a call back and/or maybe even just book you for the job. Yeah, I've booked jobs when I didn't say all the words right.
Martin: Do you feel like it's more important for an actor to play characters that are authentically who they are? Because some actors worry about like, "Oh, I don't want to box myself into playing roles that I'm best suited for. I want to do everything." I've always advised people that it's best to find a brand that's most authentically them and a look that's them. But what do you have to say on that in more detail?
Tyrone: Absolutely. I agree. I'm six foot four, 240'ish pounds. There's no way they're going to see me for the little, like, nerdy guy, it's just not going to happen. I'm a pretty fit guy, I could do better. I'll tell you the last three auditions that I had. One was for a large brooding like father type character who was mean and mad at his son for getting kicked out of school. I auditioned for this other role and I kind of read it as kind of he's a very wealthy guy, very high powered. But his wife was divorcing him. His wife was divorcing him so he's pretty bitter. I just had an audition that was talking to my agent in Atlanta. about She sent me in for this thing, not a love symbol or sex symbol, kind of a comedy, but like kind of Geeky comedy type character. But a big guy, he's an ex-football coach. So those are the roles that I go in for. I can't deny that, I can't deny who I am. I'm a big guy, so they're not going to ever send me in for small guy stuff. The best thing that I can do is own that and then try to live as authentically as I can in that when I'm auditioning. I get it. I'm also still an actor and I love taking transformative roles on. The show that I just did I played like six different characters. So in the course of one show, I played a bunch of different people.
That was amazing and fun and exhausting. But when you're auditioning, especially I think for television and film and when you're new and people don't know you, especially the casting directors don't know you, I think it's better for you to identify who you are and what you are in the industry and if you need help with that, get help with that. Because some people cannot honestly tell what their type is and you might need somebody to help you assess that. Then own it and go in and audition for those roles. Don't try to, you're not going to be Meryl Streep when you just get to New York or LA. They have to get to know you and get to know your work and then they'll start calling you in and seeing you for different things and considering you for different things. Also if you can do small films or independent films or student films or things that can allow you to get in and show a different side of yourself then do those things and have those on your actor reel because those things will allow you to show a casting director, "Oh, he can do nerdy or he can do vulnerable. He can do angry. He can do a lot of different things."
Martin: The next thing is on an agent. Now you said you have a manager and an agent, is that correct?
Tyrone: I have two agents and a manager.
Martin: First if you can briefly explain the difference for people because we didn't really talk about that in the other interview. But the difference between an agent and a manager. Then how did you actually go about getting an agent and what would your advice be for other actors looking to do the same?
Tyrone: Sure. The real easy difference between an agent and a manager is that an agent is able to submit you and then negotiate for you on your behalf for projects across unions, Equity, SAG-AFTRA, if they are members of that union. Managers, there are certain jurisdictions, they can't really submit within certain jurisdictions. Agents have to submit you in certain places like the southeast and all that. So that's one big difference. Also managers sometimes have different commission amounts that they will take from you versus the standard 10% that an agent will take. As my understanding. Managers I think generally work in smaller size client lists. So this manager that I work with, I think they may have a hundred people, maybe 150, which is a pretty large amount for a manager, but they work pretty closely with each one of their clients and really cultivate relationships with each one of their clients.
Whereas an agent, I think will have many more clients and it would be more of a just they're submitting you over and over again for projects, just see what hits. I got each one differently. The manager I got um, through my vocal coach actually. Crazy enough, he lived across the hall from one of the managers in the office. In his apartment building. The manager lived across the hall. I was in a session with him and I was like, "I'm looking for a new agent." I just mentioned it to him just in talking to him. He's like, you know what Christopher, talk to Christopher and he got me a meeting with this manager. Went to the office, the manager loved me and we started talking about signing right away. The Atlanta agent came, it took a long time. I had been submitting to agents in the southeast for over a year to be honest with you, sending emails and head shots and resumes because I knew that a lot of filming happened down there. I'm originally from North Carolina, it took about a year, year and a half before an agent even responded. This agency responded and was looking for new clients that fit my type and we talked on the phone, had a nice interview for about 20 minutes. She's aware that I live in New York City, but that I have a residence or I have people that I can stay with in North Carolina if I book something down there or Atlanta. So we started working together. Then my agent in LA came to see me in a show in Dallas that I did. She approached me after the show. She came to see one of her clients who was in the show with me in Dallas. We clicked, we got along really well and she started to represent me. It's a pretty big agency, so I'm excited about having representation out in LA.
Martin: We talked about the actual, literal differences between agents and managers, but would you say that it's like for some actors their biggest goal is to get an agent right now and they’re like, "If I have an agent, everything will change," and it's kinda like their view. So what would you say to something like that? Is a manager just as good as having an agent? Does it really depend? What goes into that?
Tyrone: I talk to my manager more than I talk to my agent. When I get new head shots done, I will send those to my manager and take my manager's advice first on which ones are the best for what they have going on and what they're looking for. I can call my manager on weekends, I can text him and get a reply back like within a few minutes. Agents don’t always work on the weekends. I just feel like I have more access to my manager and my manager I usually will ask them more kind of, not intimate questions but more… Another quick example, I made an audition tape recently where I just as an experiment wanted to try taping it at two different studios. So I just taped at two different studios. Literally I sent both takes to my manager and was like, "Which one do you like the best? Which one would you send to casting?" My manager was able to give me feedback on the two different takes. So that's important to have somebody who can kind of be your right hand man, right hand woman, whatever as you're trying to navigate. The only thing I will say is that a manager, you're probably not going to go to get a manager if you don't have credits, if you don't have some kind of background or if you don't come recommended by somebody that they represent. Agents I think are going to be a little easier to get in the door with right off the bat because they can see potential in you. I think managers also want to build you up and help you build your career. But I think agents will probably be more likely to take on someone who's not as experienced yet.
Martin: What do you feel should be a better goal for an actor, to get an agent or manager?
Tyrone: For somebody who doesn't have either.?
Martin: Yeah. Or they're just kind of doing different things?
Tyrone: I think if you, if you just moved to LA or if you just moved to New York or Atlanta and you don't have representation. It's a really good question because when I think back to how I got my very first agent, I got my very first agent by going to literally ballet classes. I used to take a ballet class every Saturday morning and one of the assistants who worked in that office saw me in ballet. She took the same class and she came up to me and was like, are you an actor? We started talking and that's how it happened. It was really weird. I wasn't looking for an agent at the time really. So I would say just try to cultivate work anyway that you can. I think no matter what you want to send people something that they can look at and see potential there. Cause I think that's the number one thing because it is a business and they are interested in who's going to help me to make money to keep the office going, keep money coming in. It's really hard too, I think if you don't have credits or experience, I don't know if a manager would be able to help you much because managers really helped promote actors to the next step of their career.But I could be just talking out of my ass, I don't really know. I think each person has to decide what's best for them. So I don't want to say which one. I think if I had to do it all over again, I think the way I did it was right. Having an agent first because they're going to be just submitting you submitting and hopefully managers are about that too. But I feel like the manager has to have something to work with.
Martin: So you feel like in general an agent is going to be sending you out for lots and lots of different things, which is good for getting some work, but a manager's going to help you kind of refine your career and get yourself directed in the right way to move through that?
Tyrone: That's been my experience. Just real quick the other big difference is, this manager, whenever I first started working with him, he literally said like, "Okay, I like you man. What do you want to do?" There was like a silence for a minute. Whereas I think an agent would be like, "Okay, yeah I see you doing commercials and you can sing so I see you doing Broadway. Maybe we'll get you in for some TV shows or you'd be perfect for Netflix." I feel like an agent will tell you what they're going to submit you for or they'll just submit you for a bunch of stuff and see where you book. A manager, I think, at least it's been my experience that my manager is interested in what I want to do. I talked earlier about targeting specific roles. I can send that list to my manager and be like, "Hey let's be on the lookout for these five shows when they're looking for people," and they'll do that. They'll be able to look out. It's happened more than a few times that literally I'll send a request to my manager and say I know this casting director, they liked me a lot and within like days I'll have an audition for that project. My manager would go to work and make it happen.
Martin: It sounds kind of like what we teach in the classes and programs and stuff that I've put together. Basically the idea of you know what you would most enjoy doing and what your personality type is. So when you're talking, you have a type, which is kind of like what you physically look like, what people see you as. Then you've got kind of an archetype almost in a sense, which is kind of your personality and what you most enjoy doing. Like what type of characters you play. So let's say you look like a police officer. But your archetype is the comedian. So now you're a funny police officer, the funny police officer is kind of your brand. So the manager can kind of help be like, "You look like the police officer," and you can be like, "Well, I'm funny and I like to joke around a lot." Then the manager will send you out for those funny type of cop roles.
Tyrone: Yeah, they'll be like go to UCB and take some improv classes or go to The Pit. They'll help you even go to the classes that you should go to and point you toward the right directions of people you should study with.
Martin: Yeah it points you in the right direction of where you should go next and what people you should connect with and all of that based on that brand you can come up with together. Before we move into our final section here, I just wanted to ask you, tell us briefly, you did a short film called Un{H}armed. Tell us a little bit about your film. What inspired you to do it and how that's related to your acting career. Has it helped you at all? Has It connected you with anybody? Do you recommend that other actors pursue their own projects outside of acting?
Tyrone: Thank you for mentioning that. I was in Sacramento, California last March and I was doing The Book of Mormon National Tour and literally the morning that we were getting ready to leave or it was the day before, Stephon Clark, a young African American man, 22 years old was shot by police officers out in Sacramento and I was in Sacramento the day that it happened. We were getting ready to leave a day or two later and I was just kind of numb. This young guy, he was innocent. He didn't have a gun or anything. He was standing in his family's backyard and the police just shot the wrong guy, they thought that he was somebody else. I just thought, "Wow I've got to do something. I've got to write something or tell the story and try and figure out a way to help bring some attention to the issue." So I mulled on it for a while and then eventually this idea for the film came to me. It’s short and we've been screened at I think 10 different film festivals now, nine or ten different film festivals all over the country. It's been incredible reception to it. We screened in the New York Short Film Festival, the Harlem International Film Festival a couple of weeks ago. Going to be in the New York Hudson Film Festival.
So all these film festivals are embracing the film and showing it. So it's bringing awareness to the issue. Also I think by doing that it's pointing people toward all of us who were involved in making the film. So it has allowed me to meet different people who are involved in filmmaking at different levels. I've had people contact me who live in LA, who work in different aspects of filmmaking, cinematographers and things like that. In the editing process of the film I had a lot of people who were musicians and things like that who were hitting me up on Kickstarter, which is where we raised money for it because they were just interested in working on the film. So that allowed me to meet more people who were just peripherally involved. But I think as an actor, it's allowed me to network and meet people who are in the field who are actually out making films because going through all these festivals, now I've had interaction through email with the guy who runs the Harlem International Film Festival. They get films from all over the world and they feature them and major stars go to this film festival. So things like that, just getting connected with these people in a way that is significant because I had something to say and the message is getting out there and hopefully people are talking about the issue. But at the same time, it is also connecting me with these people.
Martin: Do you have some sort of strategy to keep in touch with people? Because right now you're in touch with all of these people but five years from now, if you're doing another project or something, do you have any sort of strategy in place?
Tyrone: I'm going to be honest, I don't really beyond email. I think one way to do it is through considering the way that we initially meet, if it's face to face at an actual event if there's a way that I can be a part of that event again or be a part of that organization again so that we continue to have face time, I think that's really valuable. One of the things that I learned recently, like within like the last couple of years really and the saying is, "How can I add value to what you're doing?" And it really is a real thing. It's also a real way to connect with people and try and understand what are you working on and how can I add value to that? Is there anything you're doing that I can add value to? I just got a text today. One of the girls on tour with on The Book of Mormon tour, she has her own web series and it's a huge success. It's called Working Out the Kinks. They've won awards and been featured on all these different film festivals or web series festivals all over the country. While we were working together on The Book of Mormon I said to her if there's anything I can do on your web series, let me know, I'll do anything. She had me on two episodes be the script supervisor.
We just happened to be on a break here in New York. She was filming and she asked me if I wanted to do it. So I came and did it. She texted me and asked me if I wanted to write on the show, if I would consider like writing a spec episode and be a writer on the show. I mean it's something I've thought about and she knows I'm a writer. I write for comedy as well, but I was interested in her project. I was interested in, "Can I add value to that at all?" That was the whole idea. It wasn't like, "Can I work with you?" It wasn't like me trying to get something from her. It was really how could I add my skills to what she's doing? Her thing’s already a success. I think that's a big thing for people to keep in mind, think about how can you add value to what somebody else is doing? I think people can't help but want to engage with that. If somebody asked me, "How can they add value to what I'm doing?" I would love to talk to them and get engaged with them around that.
Martin: You also did the same thing with us.
Tyrone: Yeah. Cause you guys are doing great stuff!
Martin: The final section here is out of everything that you've done to move your acting career forward, what would you say would be the one or two top things that have had the most impact in moving your career forward?
Tyrone: That's a big question. Let me think about that one. I have to be honest to say that I guess two things come to mind. One is being adaptable. So there came a point where I had been working for like years, five years, six years, and literally I was like, "Okay, I'm getting the same type of stuff over and over again. The same type of work over and over again, or I'm not booking where I want to be booking." So I would keep getting the ensemble guy who understudied the lead guy. Which is fine. It's cool, it's work and I enjoyed doing that work. But after five or six years of being ensemble, ensemble, ensemble, always understudying the lead or understudying the principle guy I said I want to be doing more than that.
So I went back and I studied acting at a conservatory, really got hardcore training, started taking those skills into auditions and then I started booking roles, starting knowing what to do more. So being adaptable and being flexible even after five or six years to be able to say to myself, you got to go back and get more training. Then I think also the second thing that came to mind was looking back at the stuff that I have booked, that gave me a better understanding of how the industry sees me. The industry kind of sees me as a very specific niche type. I'm not just like an African American actor. I'm not just a black actor. I think the industry sees me very specifically as a very ethnic black actor. Meaning I usually play African characters, I usually play like foreign characters. I usually play kind of the dad, the strong father character. The industry sees me that way so that's helpful information for me to have. So I think identifying how I can improve myself helped me to move forward and continue to help me move forward. I think also being honest with myself about how I'm booking and how people are perceiving me in the industry is important for me to be able to have information going forward.
Martin: So to summarize, it sounds like the two most important things in your career so far are one, being honest with what your type is and how the industry sees you or being okay with that, which some actors don't want to be and that could be holding them back. The other one honestly just sounds like setting goals for yourself because during that five year period, you just kept on doing the same thing and then you were like, "Hey, this is specifically what I want. What do I have to do to get there?"
Tyrone: Yeah, absolutely.
Martin: If you had to give some advice to an actor stuck at a plateau in their career what would it be? And is there anything that an actor should avoid doing? It's a two part question. You kind of covered a little bit, they can set goals for themselves. Look at their type. Is there anything else or is there anything that they should avoid doing where they might be making a mistake?
Tyrone: If you feel like you're stuck in a rut, which I've totally been there before and may be there again, who knows? I would say consider getting help. Don't stay stuck. There's also the reality that sometimes you just need to take a break. When I say that, I don't mean quit the business. I just mean if you're auditioning every day just kind of beating your head against the wall, just going in for everything, maybe slow down, take a pause and start to become more specific about how you are spending your energy and your resources. Because none of us have unlimited money and time and energy and you know, patience or trying to move ourselves forward. Eventually you're gonna get tired of just chasing the same thing over and over again. So I think get help, meaning seek classes, seek people who can advise you, professionals who you really trust.
Martin: Like we were saying at the beginning, your team.
Tyrone: Yeah, your team. These are people who have known me for a long time. I've been working with them for years and they've helped me to move forward and I trust them. Then I think for what not to do? Don't get upset at yourself and don't blame yourself if you're not doing what you want to be doing yet. Because there are many, many things that go into - particularly speaking about actors - getting cast. I also write now and direct and in both of those disciplines you have much, much more control over sort of your destiny, so to speak. There are many other ways for directors and writers to get work and to get help getting their work out there if they're good, if they're talented. But for actors you can be the best trained, best looking, blah, blah, blah blah and things just might not go your way a few times or over a course of time for whatever reason. It's not always in our control. So have patience with yourself and don't beat yourself up. That's the one thing I will say don't do. Cause if you're not where you want to be yet, there's ways to think about and assess your goals. Be honest with yourself. Is that a goal? I couldn't have said 10 years ago, I'm going to be a star on Broadway. I didn't have the credits yet. I didn't have the training yet. People didn't know me yet. So be patient with yourself and don't beat yourself up.
Martin: Was there any mistake that you made looking back on your career? I wish if I hadn't done that or looking back and being like I learned a lot by making that one mistake.
Tyrone: Over the course of my time as an actor, there've been one or two times when I've thought back on someone speaking to me and trying to give mentorship and help that I just didn't pick up on. If you find that someone wants to mentor you in a healthy, positive way and you feel comfortable with it, let people help you. Or somebody who's a senior. I've had more mature actors who are farther along in their career give me advice and that was kind of an open door for mentorship and for trying to get someone on my team who could help me advise me along the way. There've been one or two times I didn't really pick up on it or I really didn't take full advantage of it that I kind of regret. But I am where I am now because I've worked at it and continued to stay with it and I'm happy with where I am. So I feel like I wish I'd had that mentorship and taken advantage of it fully. But you know what you know when you know it. And it takes the time it takes to get to where you are going.
Martin: That's an amazing piece of advice. There's a lot of people, not just actors, but just people in general who when someone gives you feedback or suggest something to you, people instantly want to shut down, especially if the feedback isn't given in the most tactful way. If you can get in the habit of just thanking the person. There was a perfect example just the other day. My Dad was looking at something as I was chatting with him and showed him a page on a website and he's like, what are you using that picture for? That picture looks terrible. Why are you using that photo there? Immediately my first instinct was to be like, "Well, I think it looks fine and I don’t really want your advice." If I said that though, then I'd be shutting down the opportunity for future tips and his advice technically was kind of correct. Usually when criticism hurts, it's because there's some kernel of truth. So instead I stopped myself from saying that. I'm like, "Okay. Alright, fine, I'll write that down. I’ll remove that picture. That's fair advice. Thank you. What else do you think?"
Tyrone: We don't have to, we're all adults. Like you're saying, take the advice, but you don't have to actually use all of it. Or there's always something, like you said, there's always a kernel of truth or something. Like what about the picture drew his attention? Why not anything else? What was it about that? My parents are not performers or artists or anything at all, but they are ready to give all the advice in the world. So I've just gotten to the point over the years where I'm just like, "Okay, yeah, I'll just call Tyler Perry and just get into a Tyler Perry film. Okay, I'll do that. No problem, mom. Yeah, thank you." But I think what she's saying is "He's doing amazing stuff. He's doing all these films and TV shows. So put yourself in a place where you can be in those environments and with people like him." So her advice is sound, even though she has no idea of how people get there. And I actually just auditioned for a Tyler Perry show.
Martin: That's a good piece of advice. You want to make those connections and get those mentors because the people that you surround yourself with are the people who you eventually become. So you need to make sure you surround yourself with people who are actually useful for you. Is there anything else that you'd like to finish up by saying for this?
Tyrone: Yes I'll be brief, but this is important because I'm learning even after doing this for a little while. Have stuff that you do in the meantime when you're not working or even when you are working as an actor. There's nothing more amazing than getting a job as an actor and working with a bunch of other actors who are interesting, who are interested, who read, who travel, who already know things about the world, who know things about other stuff other than acting. There's nothing weirder than working with actors or an actor who only talks about acting. I mean it's one thing to be passionate and we're all passionate about our crafts and about what we do. But be more well-rounded , be well read, have other interests. If it's playing chess or scrabble or whatever, being athletic, whatever it is, sports, be a whole human being. Don't just beat your head over on the wall about auditions all day long. Have a life cause that'll give you a meantime to keep you going when you're not always working. Or when you are working, you'll have other things to kind of cultivate and feed into the work that you're doing.
Martin: Yeah, having that extra life and spending your time on other things kind of also makes you happier and then you do better work in your auditions.
Tyrone: Imagine that! "I can’t be a happy actor." What are you talking about then? How am I going to be like being a "mean brooding actor?" No. Like Meryl Streep, I'm sure she gardens and does a bunch of other stuff. She has a family. Octavia Spencer does other stuff besides produce and act in films. I'm sure.
Martin: That is for the most part, pretty much everything that we wanted to cover here. This was amazing. Thank you for being on this interview!