Transcript - Polly McKie Interview
(note - there may be typos in this transcript since it was done fairly quickly)
Martin: Today, we have Polly McKie and she's here to discuss a little bit about her own acting career and her marketing and promotion techniques that she uses and even her own program that she's kind of put together to help actors with all of that stuff. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat. I'm very excited. Welcome to the show. Let's start off, if you don't mind, just tell us a little bit about your acting career. How did you get into acting and what would you say are one or two of your biggest accomplishments so far?
Polly: I wanted to go into the business when I was younger as a teenager, but for previous life reasons I didn't and I went into teaching instead. I taught high school drama for 11 years. Then I was involved in some community theater and I think the bug just never leaves you if you have it in you and I definitely have it in me. So I gave up teaching and I made the either terrible decision or balls decision, I'm not sure which, to move to New York, knowing nobody, knowing nothing. Came here as an F1 student, a foreign visa to study acting. Then I studied full time for two years, HB studio. The bug was definitely there and I wanted to stay. That's when I started looking into trying to get a visa to work here, which is a long and arduous task, but it's been absolutely worth it. As far as accomplishments, I think one a huge thing for me was getting my green card as an actor. A very good friend of and who is also an actress was an expert at that and she helped me get my green card. That meant that I was allowed to work. Then I guess getting my first off Broadway gig, which was very exciting with the mint theater. The other biggest accomplishment is the Steven Soderbergh movie that I just did quite recently called Unchanged where I play a nurse opposite Claire Foy from the time. That was pretty exciting.
Martin: That's awesome. Getting the green card, that whole thing, a lot of people who are living in the United States don't understand what kind of accomplishment that is.
Polly: It’s huge.
Martin: It's insane. It's amazing! A lot of actors when I asked them what is one of their biggest complements or things that they say that they're most proud of, many of them, especially if they're from other parts of the country, say like, being able to move to New York to pursue acting and stuff. Just kind of getting in and getting things started. If you have something that's like that level of, "I've moved to New York" or "I've traveled from a different part of the world and I'm making things happen," you have that level of accomplishment behind you. Sometimes I think it's good to just kind of think back on that and be like, "I've already accomplished this much - that means that I'm able to do a lot more."
Polly: Yeah and it certainly wasn't easy or quick. I think that one of the big thing in this business that we have to remember, we're in for the long haul. People say, "How did you get this Soderbergh movie?" That was six years of building a relationship with a casting director, it doesn't happen overnight for most people.
Martin: Yeah, exactly. That's actually leading into this next question, which is if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit more about the film and how connecting with that casting director... what was your process and how did you actually make that happen? You said it took a number of years
Polly: There's a wonderful person who every actor should take her class, Heidi Marshall, an on-camera teacher. I didn't think it’s quite related to the green card cause I'm definitely much more of a theater actor. But because of the barriers with the green card, I wasn't allowed to join Equity. So I decided to take a camera class and she knew the casting director, Carmen Cuba who’s in LA and cast Stranger Things, she cast a lot of Soderbergh stuff. I read for several small roles, there were those kinds of things, they call them, bondage, victim, more scary spectation, all of those kinds of things, random titles. I read a take for Carmen Cuba. I got a call back and I went to the call back in person and she said, "What’s your immigration status?" I told her and I wasn't in the union and she said, "Really too much paperwork for us to hire you. It's not worth it for some small role." So obviously she had liked me and liked my work, so I kept in touch with her. For example, I'll send a postcard every so often or when she cast Stranger Things, I said to her congratulations. I think that's one of the big things I teach about is, actors we tend to feel, please hire me, me, me, look, here, look at me. It's all about sending out our photo. I think the big thing to do is to be a real human being. Casting directors are people too. So when she has had these great achievements I said congratulations. Then the Soderbergh came up and I got an email asking me to submit and I put myself on tape and I got hired. But that was six years later. At the end of the shoot I said to Soderbergh, because it with a very small low budget film and he shot the whole movie on an iPhone, just kind of incredible. At the end of the shoot I went to thank him and I told him the story about Carmen and I said obviously she's very good at her job because she remembered me. I told him the whole story of auditioning six years previously and I said, "And she remembered me," and he gave me a hug and said, "I'm so glad that she did." So that's a pretty good top life time moment there.
Martin: That's a great story. It is so important. I actually just had an interview a little while ago with Ian Hersey, another actor who actually also does coaching for actors. We were talking about the whole thing about being appreciative of others and remembering others and kind of doing what we can to help others. Whether it's something like congratulating them for their own accomplishments and not keeping the focus on yourself or even like giving back. Like he was talking about how he was helping with teaching acting for free to people in a prison. There's all different ways that we can give back and help others out and that's what's best I think.
Polly: I genuinely don't think of it as a competition. In fact, I've been up for parts with friends and you just laugh. We're all so different and there are so many factors that can actually be liberating for an actor but helped me with disappointments and not booking things. So many factors are out of our control, you can go in and do your absolute best work and be the best doctor, but that doesn't always mean you're going to get the job.
Martin: Yeah, exactly. I would like now to just talk a little bit about some general things that you tend to do on a daily or a weekly basis to get payed acting work. Like how do you promote or market yourself?
Polly: Social media. I have a kind of love hate relationship with that world. But I do think it's very important and in fact I have booked work through Facebook. I'm shooting a short film tomorrow that somebody posted that they were looking for this particular thing. Someone sent it to me, I emailed them. I've never even met the people and they've booked for me for the job. Sometimes although it can be a false network because people post things that aren't necessarily real - people post exaggerations. I think, everyone's life looks perfect on Facebook and Instagram. I started the thing that I find really motivating I think because there so many ups and downs in this business, the periods when actors are resting as we like to say, I think that’s when you have to be your most proactive because the danger of depression setting in, not wanting to do things, feeling disheartened. So I started a thing with my teaching and my coaching with The Actor's Friend with a Hashtag #100daysinthelifeoftheactor. I did it for 100 days and I encouraged other people to do it. It was posting something every day on social media with a photograph saying something, one thing proactive that you're doing for your career. It could be a simple as mailing a headshot, writing the script notes, anything proactive. I find it motivates me so much and because I was leading it, so I had to do it every day. The hundred days was over, I did it a couple of years ago, but I still use that Hashtag occasionally. It can be simple things. It doesn't even need to be directly connected to acting. It can be taking yourself for a walk. I started that and students did it. I don't think it's an accident. I booked more work while I was doing that. I think if you have a positive mindset, not only does it help you, I think it comes through in the room. So recently I was a reader for auditions so I got to see from the other side of the table and it was fascinating the energy that people can bring into a room. So it's so much more than just the audition.
Martin: I like that. Basically it sounds like by focusing on those positive things and how you're moving your career forward, you're keeping yourself in a sense almost in a grateful state as opposed to like a scarcity mindset where you're worried. And that makes you perform better in your auditions and makes you more confident to talk to people and everything. It just changes the whole trajectory of where you're going. If you can keep it up. It's really cool.
Polly: Absolutely. I think that from my background, being Scottish we're certainly not used to show off, we’re more used to being modest. I think I used to have a bad habit of when I wasn't working and people kept asking, cause that's a very sensitive thing that actors have that people talk about it. They go home for Thanksgiving. "Where have you been? What have you done?" "Oh nothing. I'm not doing anything. I'm unemployed." I think a lot of that actually has to do with the green card. I had to switch my mindset to say, "Well this was really a big deal. I did this and it was a positive thing. I had to promote myself in the application as a successful actor."
Martin: That's interesting. So you kind of we're forced into it and then you kind of got used to doing it and then it builds a habit.
Polly: But that doesn't mean I don't want people to thing everything's perfect and that I don't have my demons. Yeah. But I think I'm very aware that negative things in my life have helped me as an actor too. I look back and I am actually quite grateful for life experience. For a while I was kind of bitter about not going into the business when I was younger, but I think it would have eaten me alive then. There's something about coming into it in my 30s that I had a life behind me that I can use as my tools for my acting.
Martin: Exactly. That's the right mindset for those types of things because you have so many different things that, like you said, that are completely out of control in the acting industry and just in general life. I feel like it's the duty of pretty much everybody, anyone who's working for themselves or doing freelance stuff like acting, work and everything, it's their job to take whatever happens and figure out a way to use it to their advantage. Rather than be like, "Oh, this happened to me." It's like, "How can I use this?" There is something in most things that you can use.
Polly: Another thing that comes up so often in my class, people will ask me questions. Be a human being, be a decent human being and don't be an asshole and you're going to work more. People want to work with someone who’s going to be fun. Who’s not going to bring a toxic energy into the room. It's amazing how you can see that in two minutes in a person!
Martin: Exactly. I feel like most people who are very, very successful in their careers were either born into it or they were very nice. It's rare that someone becomes successful if they're also like an asshole.
Polly: I know examples of people who have lost work because of not being a nice person.
Martin: I want to move into talking a little bit about your goals now, if you don't mind. What would you say are one or two of your biggest goals in your acting career? Or what are the things that you're currently most excited to move towards and what steps are you taking right now to achieve those goals?
Polly: I just find it a cliché, but I just want to work as an actress. I'm not hugely ambitious. I'm certainly not interested in being famous. I've done four off-Broadway contracts and I love working off-Broadway. There's so much real quality work because it's not commercial like Broadway. Obviously I would love to do a Broadway show at some point. I'm definitely working more towards getting more film and TV. That’s something that I would see, with the Soderbergh movie a lot of people just assumed that I'd suddenly get all this work and that didn't happen. I think that’s what you have to be careful with too that the assumption that if you get one thing suddenly it's going to fix everything in your career. That’s hasn’t happened. But I definitely use my clips from Unseen to promote that. For example, my email signature has my reel and has that I was in that. I used that to reach out to representation cause I actually struggled to get an agent. I have a manager, that's not been an easy road. But I think that something too that I teach, even if you get an agent or a manager, I think so many actors think oh if I had an agent I would get work. But you have to do the work. If the casting directors don't know you, the casting directors are the real key to meet you.
That's what I teach is how to build relationships with them. Because they actually don't really care if you have an agent or not. If they like you, they're going to call you in. I really tried to keep on top of that and there's a brilliant website called Casting About and I've built a relationship with the owners of that. It's run by Breakdown Services. But Casting About. I think it costs just under 50 bucks a year and it shows you who is casting everything. It’s like an online notebook. So how I use it is when I've met a casting director I will write a little note on this site and it records it for me. So if I get called in again, sometimes you don't get called in for years and [inaudible 19:00]. But you can go back and remind yourself of what the audition was, how the relationship was, what happened. That’s a great tool. Also you can print labels. So if you're sending out a mass mailing, if I'm in a play, obviously I will invite all of these casting directors to come and see it and things like that. It's about showing that you're working and inviting people to come and see your work on telling them about what you've done.
Martin: I was just going to kind of ask a side question before we move on to the next part. You said you built up a relationship with some of the people from Casting About and Breakdown Services, which, most actors know what they are. If they don't they're all sort of similar. Breakdown services I believe can more so be accessed by just the agents. But they’re are similar to just where all the different projects are posted
Polly: I get beyond Actors Access. So I have access, yes the agency can submit. How it happens is certain breakdowns are just released to agents, which is why a lot of actors struggled to get in for film and TV. But then they will also release breakdowns to actors. If it's something really specific that might be harder to get, they'll release it to everybody, to the public.
Martin: My question related to that is just in terms of, you said that you built up relationships with these people who are in these places. So some actors might actually be wondering how do you actually go about building a relationship with somebody that's in a high position? What’s your recommendations?
Polly: It's a very good question. The simplest way, although I do struggle with the idea of actors paying for things because it tends to be the actors who are struggling who have to pay the most. Like Meryl Streep doesn't have to take a class to meet a casting director. But there are classes. There are several places. There's The Source there's The Network, there's One on One, Actor's Connection where you can pay to take a class and meet a casting director. Years ago when I knew nothing and nobody, that's kind of how I found people. So I met Camille Hickman who cast for Lincoln Center and I met Judy Pullman who cast me in something at my first off-Broadway contract. A lot of casting directors if they are very good at their jobs do remember you. But of course they are meeting thousands of actors. I think it was Michael Casara who said it takes him on average maybe four or five meetings with an actor to really remember them. So if you're lucky, I tend to be lucky that people remember me. But I think that’s partly just my personality and maybe the fact that I’m Scottish, I don't know. I've been lucky with it. But there are other ways we can with our paying. You can go to EPA and be seen. Quite often that will be an assistant, but then suddenly five years down the line that assistant is then a casting director. So I don't think any of it does any harm.
There's also every six months or so I think, or maybe every year, it varies, there's a wonderful event called Meals for Monologues. Actors take canned goods or dried foods and you just [inaudible 23:13] and you go in and audition for a panel. It’s another way to get to meet them. The follow-up is the thing. So after you've met the person, remind them of who you are. Different casting directors like different things. Some casting directors like postcards or snail mail, other casting directors like email, some like Facebook. It depends. I think there's definitely a thing about following all these casting directors on social media. I wouldn't suggest that you make friends with the casting directors that you don't know. One casting director said to me her rule of thumb is don't be my Facebook friend unless you would go out for a drink. I thought that was quite a good way to analyze it. Some people are more private than others, but if it's public and you can follow them without friending them necessarily. I do have several that are friends now on Facebook. But again, that’s taking time of building up. The idea of just reaching out or again, what I was talking about earlier that we can congratulate them or comment on their tweets or like their Instagram and you're paying attention and getting to know them as a person as well as them getting to know you.
Martin: It's really important to build those relationships in a natural way. You don't wanna keep on hounding the person, but you also really need to have something like you said, to make you sort of stand out, otherwise you won't be memorable. So in your case, maybe it's the fact that you have a Scottish accent. Basically for you, I would guess, again, that it's related to the accent because it's less common. So when someone meets someone with an accent, it's kind of like, "Oh I think that I remember you or it's easier to remember. Lots of actors don't have a way to kind of stand out or separate themselves or some sort of unique trends."
Polly: Although I will say that for several additions, I pretend I'm American, so that doesn’t work.
Martin: I think that that's really important. That kind of leads into the next question, which is just what would you say are maybe one to three top tips that you could give to an actor who struggles to get called back after auditioning?
Polly: I think the first top tip is you should be absolutely 100% prepared. That sounds so obvious, but it's amazing how many people are not prepared. When I say prepared, I'm talking about everything. Obviously if it's at a theater audition, read the whole play. Again, this all sounds obvious, but it's astonishing how many people don't. You should know what is happening to your character, not just in the two pages of edition size that you get. You should know the whole arc of the person because you're portraying that person. I plan my outfit the day before, I try to walk to an addition if I can to clear my head and it helped me learn the sides. Although you still hold the paper, you should have memorized the sides if possible. Sometimes they give you 12 pages and that’s not possible. But if it's a short scene you really should know it inside out. I would also say that in the room, the reader is your friend. So they're your scene partner so be nice to them and try and be clear that you focus on them because they’re there for you. But I think sometimes if you have a reader that can make it more grounded and you just really focus on that person as if you're having this real conversation in real life. Another thing that I saw people do that I thought was so smart when I was reading for the audition, an actor came in really friendly, laid back, great energy. The director said to him, "Do you have any questions before you read?" The guy said, "Yeah, I've got lots of questions, but let me just try it and then we can talk after." He basically very cleverly negotiated that he got to do it again with an adjustment, which is what you want because you want them to see that you can take direction. Does that make sense?
Martin: Yeah. That's really smart.
Polly: Really smart. Right? I'd never thought that. I thought, wow, this guy's clever. That's a great idea. I think really don't beat yourself up if you don't get called back. There’s so many things are out of your control. This is the other thing that I see, you’re never auditioning for just one job. So my story of Steven Soderbergh showed that with Carmen Cuba I had already auditioned for her six years before. The other story that I have related to that is about not auditioning for one job. When I first moved here, everybody, it became a running joke. You should go work for Irish Red cause lots of people assume I'm Irish. That's like saying somebody you should go and be on Broadway. Yeah, okay, I'll do that. I can't control that. I went to EPA for Irish Red, I auditioned. Debbie Brian was their casting director and I invited her to my first off-Broadway show and she came and at the end she was very complimentary. I said to her, I've auditioned for you before, but you never cast me. She just said, "Well that's our mistake," and laughed. The next job that I was right for, I sent her an email and I said I'd love to come in and read for this and I booked the job. Charlotte Miller, who is the artistic director for Irish Red who I've met several times, but obviously I didn't book any of the work. On my opening night she said how did it take us so long finding you, which was lovely. But at the same time I've been there but I've just been consistently going. But it took time. Then a year later Charlotte Rowe offered me another job at Irish Red without me having to audition. It's just about being persistent. One of my students called me the poster child for tenacity, which I love, because you just have to keep going. We don't have options at first and then the successes can suddenly happen. Do you know who I mean by Austin Pendleton?
Martin: I don't think so.
Polly: Google him. Austin Pendleton works all the time and he was my first teacher and he was giving me my first off Broadway gig. He's very special in my life. He tells a story that he auditioned for Ron Howard for something and didn't book it. Nine years later he got a straight offer for A Beautiful Mind from Ron Howard, nine years later! You think, "Oh man, do I have to wait nine years?" I think you can choose to find that depressing or you can choose to find that encouraging and I choose to find it encouraging.
Martin: That leads to a side question, I'm going to have to ask this and it's a two part question. A lot of actors will hear all of this stuff. There's so many good bits of information that people are getting from some of the interviews that I've done and some of the information that I have on my site. I'm someone who's all about systematizing things to make it as easy as possible to both remember and actually get done. So my question is, do you have ways of systematizing your networking and sort of making it not feel so overwhelming with the number of people? How do you remember who to reach out to and all of that?
Polly: As I said earlier, I use Casting About, cause they've got systems where you can use notes. In fact, you can look on the site and get a sneak peek without having to join. I use that. I'm also a great fan of writing lists with lists and lists of people. What I tell my students is I think it can be overwhelming. So if you're just starting out and you don't know any casting directors or you know one or two, I give them homework to facilitate my class. Then I'd say over the next two weeks look at 3 to 5 casting directors that you think you should target. The ways to go about that is either thinking at ones that you have met but also you can look up who is casting. So if you know you're right for Hamilton or you know you're right for whatever TV show, Blue Bloods, you look up who is casting and come up with your target list. But keep a small list so that it's doable. Because I think a lot of actors and I've been guilty of it is that you give yourself too much and then it's overwhelming and you don't do any of it.
In Casting About, for example, I'll write, invited this person to come and see me. They came or they didn't come, things like that. So I make a note. Back in the old days before casting I did it in an old school notebook. But having it online, I find as much easier. I don't have to scroll back. I can just click on the specific casting director's name and see, when I met them and what it was from.
Martin: You had mentioned about all of the homework basically to do before every audition, like to read through the entire script. Some actors might be thinking I go out for so many auditions, how am I going to have time to do that? For that would you recommend that people be more selective with auditions or is there any way? Should they continue going to all the different auditions that they're doing and read all the scripts? What are your thoughts?
Polly: It doesn't take that long to read a play. I find that I will go and sit outside and give myself the discipline of I've got two hours, I'm going to sit and read this. The thing is I think the more successful you are, the more selective you can be. But when you're first starting I really kind of approve of saying yes to more things because that's how you get yourself seen and you'd never know one thing is going to lead to another. I am probably more selective though. My manager sent me out for a play and I read the play. I went to the audition but I hated the play. Then he sent me another message saying that another was doing the same play and I said no. We have to have some kind of joy in the work. I'm not really giving a yes or no answer to that. I do believe in going with your gut, I have done some things that weren't good experiences and I've learned from that. If you're talking about film and TV there are certain alarm bells sometimes that even in the submission you can tell that maybe it's not professional. I would just say be Deborah Singh and be very careful. It's amazing to me how many actors don't read the breakdowns thoroughly. Really, you need to know everything. So for example, a friend of mine who didn't read a breakdown and went in was five inches too tall for what they had specifically asked for. Then you're just giving yourself a bad reputation for not knowing what you're going in for.
Martin: Totally. It makes a lot of sense. It sounds to me like what your recommendation is, is towards the beginning of the actor's career that they're a little bit more open to trying all different things and going out for things. But being selective of course with making sure that the projects you are going for are actually real projects and not like scams or something really unprofessional. As you start to book more work and your career starts picking up a little bit, then you start to become more and more and more selective. You hone in on your brand and you figure out the types of roles that you're perfect for and you put all that work in where you read the full script and do all the background homework. You even read about the director to know what he might be looking for. All of that.
Polly: Absolutely. That's just made me think of another tip. Google is your friend. Beforehand, Google who the director is, Google who the casting director is. If you don't know the names check because the whole six degrees of Kevin Bacon, this is true. This business is actually remarkably small. My audition tomorrow that I'm doing, it turns out that the assistant director knows me and gave a great recommendation. I've never met her. I only know her through social media. Everybody knows somebody in this business, that's why it's especially important not to be [inaudible 38:44] as well. But work can breed work. So for example, there is some great nonunion stuff happening with passionate people. You can get together with your friends and make your own work. That's a huge thing now when you look at High Maintenance, Broad City, all of these things started with just friends who decided to make their own work. You can do that too. Then it’s so much easier to be in touch with the casting director or an agent when you're doing something because you're able to say, "I am in this, I'm actively doing something."
Martin: Yeah, that's really, really good. You mentioned getting in touch with an agent and all of that, which kind of leads into my next question. Which is just what would be your advice for an actor either looking to get an agent or manager? If they're not sure exactly what to do or they've been looking for someone for a while, what would you tell them?
Polly: It's hard. I'll say that first. I think the best way is to look at your friends first. For quite a while every actor I met I would ask them, "Who is your agent?" Then for me, what I did when I did Unseen was I looked up on IMDB who represented the actors who had this kind of similar level of part as I had in it. Cause I felt they would’ve seen the movie and I can reach out to them and say, "You represent someone, so here's my stuff." I think the first thing is to talk to your friends who have agents and managers and see if they'll recommend you. The second thing is to research actors. A big thing that happened for me was "We already have your type," or "We don't need another middle aged white women."
I think in the business you’ve got to look and see. You can see on IMDB who they represent and if you're similar to someone they have they're probably not going to take you on. Another way to meet them is some accept submissions, some except snail mail. You just have to do your research and look at actors that you admire. Or maybe actors who are at your level and they're working because obviously if you're just starting out, unless there's something very specific the chances of you getting a big agency are small. So look at what level you're at and pitch yourself. The other thing is they want to know who you know. I had a meeting with an agency and the big things were to be able to say I know these casting directors, I know these directors. These are the parts I'm right for. I know that I'm like a young Jean Howdy show or a young Margo Martin deal or a young Anne Dowe. Those are the kind of parts that I am right for. It's knowing your type and knowing who you are as a person and what your skill set is. Also be honest, don't say I can play the piano when you can't.
Martin: So my next question is just out of all the things that you've done over time as an actor, what would you say are one or two things that you think have been the most helpful in moving your acting career forward?
Polly: Taking class. I think you always need to be on your game. I still go to a singing class every week. I host open mic and I sing every week and that definitely helps me, it’s like going to the gym. Then definitely the whole thing about keeping in touch with casting directors. I've given you examples of actually booking work from that. Also it's astonishing, it can be kind of frightening to people that put you in a book. So the number of times, because I do a lot street plays, a number of times people are surprised by saying that I sing. Things like that you should have, you have to put that kind of out there. That can mean having clips. This is a big thing, people still have reels cause it can show range. But what casting directors are saying now is it’s about being brief. One of the big things I teach is I’m an actor think of yourself as the casting director's assistant. How are you going to help them? You help them by telling them that you're the person for the part and how you do that.
For example on a submission on [inaudible 44:14] you take a clip that is right for the role that you're submitting for and, very important thing is that you write a good cover note. So you basically tell them in as short a way as possible that you are this Scottish spinster type for example and what you can do. By using the breakdown, you used to work with the breakdown and it helps them because the big thing is they get thousands of submissions and they don't have a long time. So it's about showing them as quickly as possible that you're right for the part. That's been huge for me. Learning about writing the cover notes helped me get more auditions definitely. I also think, don't be afraid. People are like what if I submit for this and I do? What's the harm? They're going to delete the email and not going to open your submission? Be bold. If you know somebody who knows somebody don't be afraid to ask can you get me in for this? All that someone could say is no, and they say yes you’re going to get an audition. That's the important thing.
Martin: Yeah. I love that, it's excellent advice. My mostly final question is just in terms of general advice. If you had to give some advice to an actor who feels like they're stuck in their career, what would it be? Is there anything that an actor should avoid doing?
Polly: I think mainly online presence is really paramount. I said this before, Meryl Streep doesn't need a website, but you do. You should have a website. You should have clips on that. You should have your resume, all of those things. You should certainly be an Actor’s Access. You need to be out there. One of the first questions I ask in one of my workshops is, do you know what happens if somebody could Google it? I happen to be lucky that there is no one else is called Polly Mckie. But you want the professional thing which is to come up first. You want your website to come up, not something about your social life. But the other thing I think is that you also have to show that you're a real human being and not just an actor. On my social media of course I try to promote myself, but I also show my real life, show my niece and nephews and all of those things. Because they want to work with a real human being, not some plastic actor. Things not to do, I think this is huge and I see it so often just really try not to be negative on Facebook or social media in general.
So I post if I go and see something at theater, I think it's important to be out there and see art cause that's another great way. You look at who cast plays and you can send them an email or a postcard say I just saw this play, what a brilliant cast, congratulations. The same proceeding a movie. But the negativity thing... Sometimes I'll post if I’ve seen something and if I haven't liked it and someone else says how was it I'm not going to answer that in public because you don't know. It’s like the 10 minute rule, when you leave the theater you don’t talk about anything until you're safely at a distance. I just think, try not to be negative in general by complaining. People don't want to work with someone who has that negative energy. So that's for me that the big thing, try not to be negative or a downer on social media.
Martin: Yeah, there's a statistic that says that I think 92% of people who are hiring somebody, that would be casting directors and even just regular employers for companies, use social media and look at people's social media profiles during the hiring process. Like you're saying you never know either. If you post some stuff that shows you in a position of doing something that's not appropriate or not friendly or whatever. Or even like you're saying, saying something negative about a production. If that casting director who you just saw is looking at you and they see that you just said something bad about our production they were involved in…
Polly: Exactly. Don't get me wrong, it's tempting. But save those conversations for when you go for a drink with your friends.
Martin: Totally. That's really, really excellent advice. Is there anything else that you'd like to finish up by saying? In addition to that, I'd also like you to just briefly tell us a little bit more about The Actor's Friend program that you have.
Polly: I think the takeaway from all of this is just try to keep your spirits up. One of my other tips is find something fun to do after an audition because I think it can be so dark. I sometimes go and see a movie or something that I have to switch my phone off so that I'm not constantly checking. I think that we just have to support each other and remember that it's difficult. But we are also lucky enough to be doing what we love, there's a passion. I feel very passionately about helping other actors too, which is why I started The Actor's Friend. I get excited when people take my class and I give them these tools. I can't wave a magic wand and make you a movie star, but I can give them tools to help them to get into the room. That's what brings me joy. I find it really helps me too cause when I teach the class I get motivated and I see things. I'll tell them you need to label your clips differently. Then I think, "Oh, I need to do that on my side too." So it motivates me to practice what I preach. I'll get a text from a student or an email saying that they got an addition using something that I've taught them and that's really exciting.
Martin: That's awesome. That's pretty much it for the interview. On behalf of everybody listening to this and definitely on behalf of myself, I really want to thank you. It was really, really nice to hear the perspective from somebody who actually teaches actors some of these things and how to connect with casting directors and all of that. There's a ton of really, really helpful information in this. Thank you so much for doing this.
Polly: It’s been a pleasure. Thank you!
Martin: Today, we have Polly McKie and she's here to discuss a little bit about her own acting career and her marketing and promotion techniques that she uses and even her own program that she's kind of put together to help actors with all of that stuff. Thanks so much for taking the time to chat. I'm very excited. Welcome to the show. Let's start off, if you don't mind, just tell us a little bit about your acting career. How did you get into acting and what would you say are one or two of your biggest accomplishments so far?
Polly: I wanted to go into the business when I was younger as a teenager, but for previous life reasons I didn't and I went into teaching instead. I taught high school drama for 11 years. Then I was involved in some community theater and I think the bug just never leaves you if you have it in you and I definitely have it in me. So I gave up teaching and I made the either terrible decision or balls decision, I'm not sure which, to move to New York, knowing nobody, knowing nothing. Came here as an F1 student, a foreign visa to study acting. Then I studied full time for two years, HB studio. The bug was definitely there and I wanted to stay. That's when I started looking into trying to get a visa to work here, which is a long and arduous task, but it's been absolutely worth it. As far as accomplishments, I think one a huge thing for me was getting my green card as an actor. A very good friend of and who is also an actress was an expert at that and she helped me get my green card. That meant that I was allowed to work. Then I guess getting my first off Broadway gig, which was very exciting with the mint theater. The other biggest accomplishment is the Steven Soderbergh movie that I just did quite recently called Unchanged where I play a nurse opposite Claire Foy from the time. That was pretty exciting.
Martin: That's awesome. Getting the green card, that whole thing, a lot of people who are living in the United States don't understand what kind of accomplishment that is.
Polly: It’s huge.
Martin: It's insane. It's amazing! A lot of actors when I asked them what is one of their biggest complements or things that they say that they're most proud of, many of them, especially if they're from other parts of the country, say like, being able to move to New York to pursue acting and stuff. Just kind of getting in and getting things started. If you have something that's like that level of, "I've moved to New York" or "I've traveled from a different part of the world and I'm making things happen," you have that level of accomplishment behind you. Sometimes I think it's good to just kind of think back on that and be like, "I've already accomplished this much - that means that I'm able to do a lot more."
Polly: Yeah and it certainly wasn't easy or quick. I think that one of the big thing in this business that we have to remember, we're in for the long haul. People say, "How did you get this Soderbergh movie?" That was six years of building a relationship with a casting director, it doesn't happen overnight for most people.
Martin: Yeah, exactly. That's actually leading into this next question, which is if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit more about the film and how connecting with that casting director... what was your process and how did you actually make that happen? You said it took a number of years
Polly: There's a wonderful person who every actor should take her class, Heidi Marshall, an on-camera teacher. I didn't think it’s quite related to the green card cause I'm definitely much more of a theater actor. But because of the barriers with the green card, I wasn't allowed to join Equity. So I decided to take a camera class and she knew the casting director, Carmen Cuba who’s in LA and cast Stranger Things, she cast a lot of Soderbergh stuff. I read for several small roles, there were those kinds of things, they call them, bondage, victim, more scary spectation, all of those kinds of things, random titles. I read a take for Carmen Cuba. I got a call back and I went to the call back in person and she said, "What’s your immigration status?" I told her and I wasn't in the union and she said, "Really too much paperwork for us to hire you. It's not worth it for some small role." So obviously she had liked me and liked my work, so I kept in touch with her. For example, I'll send a postcard every so often or when she cast Stranger Things, I said to her congratulations. I think that's one of the big things I teach about is, actors we tend to feel, please hire me, me, me, look, here, look at me. It's all about sending out our photo. I think the big thing to do is to be a real human being. Casting directors are people too. So when she has had these great achievements I said congratulations. Then the Soderbergh came up and I got an email asking me to submit and I put myself on tape and I got hired. But that was six years later. At the end of the shoot I said to Soderbergh, because it with a very small low budget film and he shot the whole movie on an iPhone, just kind of incredible. At the end of the shoot I went to thank him and I told him the story about Carmen and I said obviously she's very good at her job because she remembered me. I told him the whole story of auditioning six years previously and I said, "And she remembered me," and he gave me a hug and said, "I'm so glad that she did." So that's a pretty good top life time moment there.
Martin: That's a great story. It is so important. I actually just had an interview a little while ago with Ian Hersey, another actor who actually also does coaching for actors. We were talking about the whole thing about being appreciative of others and remembering others and kind of doing what we can to help others. Whether it's something like congratulating them for their own accomplishments and not keeping the focus on yourself or even like giving back. Like he was talking about how he was helping with teaching acting for free to people in a prison. There's all different ways that we can give back and help others out and that's what's best I think.
Polly: I genuinely don't think of it as a competition. In fact, I've been up for parts with friends and you just laugh. We're all so different and there are so many factors that can actually be liberating for an actor but helped me with disappointments and not booking things. So many factors are out of our control, you can go in and do your absolute best work and be the best doctor, but that doesn't always mean you're going to get the job.
Martin: Yeah, exactly. I would like now to just talk a little bit about some general things that you tend to do on a daily or a weekly basis to get payed acting work. Like how do you promote or market yourself?
Polly: Social media. I have a kind of love hate relationship with that world. But I do think it's very important and in fact I have booked work through Facebook. I'm shooting a short film tomorrow that somebody posted that they were looking for this particular thing. Someone sent it to me, I emailed them. I've never even met the people and they've booked for me for the job. Sometimes although it can be a false network because people post things that aren't necessarily real - people post exaggerations. I think, everyone's life looks perfect on Facebook and Instagram. I started the thing that I find really motivating I think because there so many ups and downs in this business, the periods when actors are resting as we like to say, I think that’s when you have to be your most proactive because the danger of depression setting in, not wanting to do things, feeling disheartened. So I started a thing with my teaching and my coaching with The Actor's Friend with a Hashtag #100daysinthelifeoftheactor. I did it for 100 days and I encouraged other people to do it. It was posting something every day on social media with a photograph saying something, one thing proactive that you're doing for your career. It could be a simple as mailing a headshot, writing the script notes, anything proactive. I find it motivates me so much and because I was leading it, so I had to do it every day. The hundred days was over, I did it a couple of years ago, but I still use that Hashtag occasionally. It can be simple things. It doesn't even need to be directly connected to acting. It can be taking yourself for a walk. I started that and students did it. I don't think it's an accident. I booked more work while I was doing that. I think if you have a positive mindset, not only does it help you, I think it comes through in the room. So recently I was a reader for auditions so I got to see from the other side of the table and it was fascinating the energy that people can bring into a room. So it's so much more than just the audition.
Martin: I like that. Basically it sounds like by focusing on those positive things and how you're moving your career forward, you're keeping yourself in a sense almost in a grateful state as opposed to like a scarcity mindset where you're worried. And that makes you perform better in your auditions and makes you more confident to talk to people and everything. It just changes the whole trajectory of where you're going. If you can keep it up. It's really cool.
Polly: Absolutely. I think that from my background, being Scottish we're certainly not used to show off, we’re more used to being modest. I think I used to have a bad habit of when I wasn't working and people kept asking, cause that's a very sensitive thing that actors have that people talk about it. They go home for Thanksgiving. "Where have you been? What have you done?" "Oh nothing. I'm not doing anything. I'm unemployed." I think a lot of that actually has to do with the green card. I had to switch my mindset to say, "Well this was really a big deal. I did this and it was a positive thing. I had to promote myself in the application as a successful actor."
Martin: That's interesting. So you kind of we're forced into it and then you kind of got used to doing it and then it builds a habit.
Polly: But that doesn't mean I don't want people to thing everything's perfect and that I don't have my demons. Yeah. But I think I'm very aware that negative things in my life have helped me as an actor too. I look back and I am actually quite grateful for life experience. For a while I was kind of bitter about not going into the business when I was younger, but I think it would have eaten me alive then. There's something about coming into it in my 30s that I had a life behind me that I can use as my tools for my acting.
Martin: Exactly. That's the right mindset for those types of things because you have so many different things that, like you said, that are completely out of control in the acting industry and just in general life. I feel like it's the duty of pretty much everybody, anyone who's working for themselves or doing freelance stuff like acting, work and everything, it's their job to take whatever happens and figure out a way to use it to their advantage. Rather than be like, "Oh, this happened to me." It's like, "How can I use this?" There is something in most things that you can use.
Polly: Another thing that comes up so often in my class, people will ask me questions. Be a human being, be a decent human being and don't be an asshole and you're going to work more. People want to work with someone who’s going to be fun. Who’s not going to bring a toxic energy into the room. It's amazing how you can see that in two minutes in a person!
Martin: Exactly. I feel like most people who are very, very successful in their careers were either born into it or they were very nice. It's rare that someone becomes successful if they're also like an asshole.
Polly: I know examples of people who have lost work because of not being a nice person.
Martin: I want to move into talking a little bit about your goals now, if you don't mind. What would you say are one or two of your biggest goals in your acting career? Or what are the things that you're currently most excited to move towards and what steps are you taking right now to achieve those goals?
Polly: I just find it a cliché, but I just want to work as an actress. I'm not hugely ambitious. I'm certainly not interested in being famous. I've done four off-Broadway contracts and I love working off-Broadway. There's so much real quality work because it's not commercial like Broadway. Obviously I would love to do a Broadway show at some point. I'm definitely working more towards getting more film and TV. That’s something that I would see, with the Soderbergh movie a lot of people just assumed that I'd suddenly get all this work and that didn't happen. I think that’s what you have to be careful with too that the assumption that if you get one thing suddenly it's going to fix everything in your career. That’s hasn’t happened. But I definitely use my clips from Unseen to promote that. For example, my email signature has my reel and has that I was in that. I used that to reach out to representation cause I actually struggled to get an agent. I have a manager, that's not been an easy road. But I think that something too that I teach, even if you get an agent or a manager, I think so many actors think oh if I had an agent I would get work. But you have to do the work. If the casting directors don't know you, the casting directors are the real key to meet you.
That's what I teach is how to build relationships with them. Because they actually don't really care if you have an agent or not. If they like you, they're going to call you in. I really tried to keep on top of that and there's a brilliant website called Casting About and I've built a relationship with the owners of that. It's run by Breakdown Services. But Casting About. I think it costs just under 50 bucks a year and it shows you who is casting everything. It’s like an online notebook. So how I use it is when I've met a casting director I will write a little note on this site and it records it for me. So if I get called in again, sometimes you don't get called in for years and [inaudible 19:00]. But you can go back and remind yourself of what the audition was, how the relationship was, what happened. That’s a great tool. Also you can print labels. So if you're sending out a mass mailing, if I'm in a play, obviously I will invite all of these casting directors to come and see it and things like that. It's about showing that you're working and inviting people to come and see your work on telling them about what you've done.
Martin: I was just going to kind of ask a side question before we move on to the next part. You said you built up a relationship with some of the people from Casting About and Breakdown Services, which, most actors know what they are. If they don't they're all sort of similar. Breakdown services I believe can more so be accessed by just the agents. But they’re are similar to just where all the different projects are posted
Polly: I get beyond Actors Access. So I have access, yes the agency can submit. How it happens is certain breakdowns are just released to agents, which is why a lot of actors struggled to get in for film and TV. But then they will also release breakdowns to actors. If it's something really specific that might be harder to get, they'll release it to everybody, to the public.
Martin: My question related to that is just in terms of, you said that you built up relationships with these people who are in these places. So some actors might actually be wondering how do you actually go about building a relationship with somebody that's in a high position? What’s your recommendations?
Polly: It's a very good question. The simplest way, although I do struggle with the idea of actors paying for things because it tends to be the actors who are struggling who have to pay the most. Like Meryl Streep doesn't have to take a class to meet a casting director. But there are classes. There are several places. There's The Source there's The Network, there's One on One, Actor's Connection where you can pay to take a class and meet a casting director. Years ago when I knew nothing and nobody, that's kind of how I found people. So I met Camille Hickman who cast for Lincoln Center and I met Judy Pullman who cast me in something at my first off-Broadway contract. A lot of casting directors if they are very good at their jobs do remember you. But of course they are meeting thousands of actors. I think it was Michael Casara who said it takes him on average maybe four or five meetings with an actor to really remember them. So if you're lucky, I tend to be lucky that people remember me. But I think that’s partly just my personality and maybe the fact that I’m Scottish, I don't know. I've been lucky with it. But there are other ways we can with our paying. You can go to EPA and be seen. Quite often that will be an assistant, but then suddenly five years down the line that assistant is then a casting director. So I don't think any of it does any harm.
There's also every six months or so I think, or maybe every year, it varies, there's a wonderful event called Meals for Monologues. Actors take canned goods or dried foods and you just [inaudible 23:13] and you go in and audition for a panel. It’s another way to get to meet them. The follow-up is the thing. So after you've met the person, remind them of who you are. Different casting directors like different things. Some casting directors like postcards or snail mail, other casting directors like email, some like Facebook. It depends. I think there's definitely a thing about following all these casting directors on social media. I wouldn't suggest that you make friends with the casting directors that you don't know. One casting director said to me her rule of thumb is don't be my Facebook friend unless you would go out for a drink. I thought that was quite a good way to analyze it. Some people are more private than others, but if it's public and you can follow them without friending them necessarily. I do have several that are friends now on Facebook. But again, that’s taking time of building up. The idea of just reaching out or again, what I was talking about earlier that we can congratulate them or comment on their tweets or like their Instagram and you're paying attention and getting to know them as a person as well as them getting to know you.
Martin: It's really important to build those relationships in a natural way. You don't wanna keep on hounding the person, but you also really need to have something like you said, to make you sort of stand out, otherwise you won't be memorable. So in your case, maybe it's the fact that you have a Scottish accent. Basically for you, I would guess, again, that it's related to the accent because it's less common. So when someone meets someone with an accent, it's kind of like, "Oh I think that I remember you or it's easier to remember. Lots of actors don't have a way to kind of stand out or separate themselves or some sort of unique trends."
Polly: Although I will say that for several additions, I pretend I'm American, so that doesn’t work.
Martin: I think that that's really important. That kind of leads into the next question, which is just what would you say are maybe one to three top tips that you could give to an actor who struggles to get called back after auditioning?
Polly: I think the first top tip is you should be absolutely 100% prepared. That sounds so obvious, but it's amazing how many people are not prepared. When I say prepared, I'm talking about everything. Obviously if it's at a theater audition, read the whole play. Again, this all sounds obvious, but it's astonishing how many people don't. You should know what is happening to your character, not just in the two pages of edition size that you get. You should know the whole arc of the person because you're portraying that person. I plan my outfit the day before, I try to walk to an addition if I can to clear my head and it helped me learn the sides. Although you still hold the paper, you should have memorized the sides if possible. Sometimes they give you 12 pages and that’s not possible. But if it's a short scene you really should know it inside out. I would also say that in the room, the reader is your friend. So they're your scene partner so be nice to them and try and be clear that you focus on them because they’re there for you. But I think sometimes if you have a reader that can make it more grounded and you just really focus on that person as if you're having this real conversation in real life. Another thing that I saw people do that I thought was so smart when I was reading for the audition, an actor came in really friendly, laid back, great energy. The director said to him, "Do you have any questions before you read?" The guy said, "Yeah, I've got lots of questions, but let me just try it and then we can talk after." He basically very cleverly negotiated that he got to do it again with an adjustment, which is what you want because you want them to see that you can take direction. Does that make sense?
Martin: Yeah. That's really smart.
Polly: Really smart. Right? I'd never thought that. I thought, wow, this guy's clever. That's a great idea. I think really don't beat yourself up if you don't get called back. There’s so many things are out of your control. This is the other thing that I see, you’re never auditioning for just one job. So my story of Steven Soderbergh showed that with Carmen Cuba I had already auditioned for her six years before. The other story that I have related to that is about not auditioning for one job. When I first moved here, everybody, it became a running joke. You should go work for Irish Red cause lots of people assume I'm Irish. That's like saying somebody you should go and be on Broadway. Yeah, okay, I'll do that. I can't control that. I went to EPA for Irish Red, I auditioned. Debbie Brian was their casting director and I invited her to my first off-Broadway show and she came and at the end she was very complimentary. I said to her, I've auditioned for you before, but you never cast me. She just said, "Well that's our mistake," and laughed. The next job that I was right for, I sent her an email and I said I'd love to come in and read for this and I booked the job. Charlotte Miller, who is the artistic director for Irish Red who I've met several times, but obviously I didn't book any of the work. On my opening night she said how did it take us so long finding you, which was lovely. But at the same time I've been there but I've just been consistently going. But it took time. Then a year later Charlotte Rowe offered me another job at Irish Red without me having to audition. It's just about being persistent. One of my students called me the poster child for tenacity, which I love, because you just have to keep going. We don't have options at first and then the successes can suddenly happen. Do you know who I mean by Austin Pendleton?
Martin: I don't think so.
Polly: Google him. Austin Pendleton works all the time and he was my first teacher and he was giving me my first off Broadway gig. He's very special in my life. He tells a story that he auditioned for Ron Howard for something and didn't book it. Nine years later he got a straight offer for A Beautiful Mind from Ron Howard, nine years later! You think, "Oh man, do I have to wait nine years?" I think you can choose to find that depressing or you can choose to find that encouraging and I choose to find it encouraging.
Martin: That leads to a side question, I'm going to have to ask this and it's a two part question. A lot of actors will hear all of this stuff. There's so many good bits of information that people are getting from some of the interviews that I've done and some of the information that I have on my site. I'm someone who's all about systematizing things to make it as easy as possible to both remember and actually get done. So my question is, do you have ways of systematizing your networking and sort of making it not feel so overwhelming with the number of people? How do you remember who to reach out to and all of that?
Polly: As I said earlier, I use Casting About, cause they've got systems where you can use notes. In fact, you can look on the site and get a sneak peek without having to join. I use that. I'm also a great fan of writing lists with lists and lists of people. What I tell my students is I think it can be overwhelming. So if you're just starting out and you don't know any casting directors or you know one or two, I give them homework to facilitate my class. Then I'd say over the next two weeks look at 3 to 5 casting directors that you think you should target. The ways to go about that is either thinking at ones that you have met but also you can look up who is casting. So if you know you're right for Hamilton or you know you're right for whatever TV show, Blue Bloods, you look up who is casting and come up with your target list. But keep a small list so that it's doable. Because I think a lot of actors and I've been guilty of it is that you give yourself too much and then it's overwhelming and you don't do any of it.
In Casting About, for example, I'll write, invited this person to come and see me. They came or they didn't come, things like that. So I make a note. Back in the old days before casting I did it in an old school notebook. But having it online, I find as much easier. I don't have to scroll back. I can just click on the specific casting director's name and see, when I met them and what it was from.
Martin: You had mentioned about all of the homework basically to do before every audition, like to read through the entire script. Some actors might be thinking I go out for so many auditions, how am I going to have time to do that? For that would you recommend that people be more selective with auditions or is there any way? Should they continue going to all the different auditions that they're doing and read all the scripts? What are your thoughts?
Polly: It doesn't take that long to read a play. I find that I will go and sit outside and give myself the discipline of I've got two hours, I'm going to sit and read this. The thing is I think the more successful you are, the more selective you can be. But when you're first starting I really kind of approve of saying yes to more things because that's how you get yourself seen and you'd never know one thing is going to lead to another. I am probably more selective though. My manager sent me out for a play and I read the play. I went to the audition but I hated the play. Then he sent me another message saying that another was doing the same play and I said no. We have to have some kind of joy in the work. I'm not really giving a yes or no answer to that. I do believe in going with your gut, I have done some things that weren't good experiences and I've learned from that. If you're talking about film and TV there are certain alarm bells sometimes that even in the submission you can tell that maybe it's not professional. I would just say be Deborah Singh and be very careful. It's amazing to me how many actors don't read the breakdowns thoroughly. Really, you need to know everything. So for example, a friend of mine who didn't read a breakdown and went in was five inches too tall for what they had specifically asked for. Then you're just giving yourself a bad reputation for not knowing what you're going in for.
Martin: Totally. It makes a lot of sense. It sounds to me like what your recommendation is, is towards the beginning of the actor's career that they're a little bit more open to trying all different things and going out for things. But being selective of course with making sure that the projects you are going for are actually real projects and not like scams or something really unprofessional. As you start to book more work and your career starts picking up a little bit, then you start to become more and more and more selective. You hone in on your brand and you figure out the types of roles that you're perfect for and you put all that work in where you read the full script and do all the background homework. You even read about the director to know what he might be looking for. All of that.
Polly: Absolutely. That's just made me think of another tip. Google is your friend. Beforehand, Google who the director is, Google who the casting director is. If you don't know the names check because the whole six degrees of Kevin Bacon, this is true. This business is actually remarkably small. My audition tomorrow that I'm doing, it turns out that the assistant director knows me and gave a great recommendation. I've never met her. I only know her through social media. Everybody knows somebody in this business, that's why it's especially important not to be [inaudible 38:44] as well. But work can breed work. So for example, there is some great nonunion stuff happening with passionate people. You can get together with your friends and make your own work. That's a huge thing now when you look at High Maintenance, Broad City, all of these things started with just friends who decided to make their own work. You can do that too. Then it’s so much easier to be in touch with the casting director or an agent when you're doing something because you're able to say, "I am in this, I'm actively doing something."
Martin: Yeah, that's really, really good. You mentioned getting in touch with an agent and all of that, which kind of leads into my next question. Which is just what would be your advice for an actor either looking to get an agent or manager? If they're not sure exactly what to do or they've been looking for someone for a while, what would you tell them?
Polly: It's hard. I'll say that first. I think the best way is to look at your friends first. For quite a while every actor I met I would ask them, "Who is your agent?" Then for me, what I did when I did Unseen was I looked up on IMDB who represented the actors who had this kind of similar level of part as I had in it. Cause I felt they would’ve seen the movie and I can reach out to them and say, "You represent someone, so here's my stuff." I think the first thing is to talk to your friends who have agents and managers and see if they'll recommend you. The second thing is to research actors. A big thing that happened for me was "We already have your type," or "We don't need another middle aged white women."
I think in the business you’ve got to look and see. You can see on IMDB who they represent and if you're similar to someone they have they're probably not going to take you on. Another way to meet them is some accept submissions, some except snail mail. You just have to do your research and look at actors that you admire. Or maybe actors who are at your level and they're working because obviously if you're just starting out, unless there's something very specific the chances of you getting a big agency are small. So look at what level you're at and pitch yourself. The other thing is they want to know who you know. I had a meeting with an agency and the big things were to be able to say I know these casting directors, I know these directors. These are the parts I'm right for. I know that I'm like a young Jean Howdy show or a young Margo Martin deal or a young Anne Dowe. Those are the kind of parts that I am right for. It's knowing your type and knowing who you are as a person and what your skill set is. Also be honest, don't say I can play the piano when you can't.
Martin: So my next question is just out of all the things that you've done over time as an actor, what would you say are one or two things that you think have been the most helpful in moving your acting career forward?
Polly: Taking class. I think you always need to be on your game. I still go to a singing class every week. I host open mic and I sing every week and that definitely helps me, it’s like going to the gym. Then definitely the whole thing about keeping in touch with casting directors. I've given you examples of actually booking work from that. Also it's astonishing, it can be kind of frightening to people that put you in a book. So the number of times, because I do a lot street plays, a number of times people are surprised by saying that I sing. Things like that you should have, you have to put that kind of out there. That can mean having clips. This is a big thing, people still have reels cause it can show range. But what casting directors are saying now is it’s about being brief. One of the big things I teach is I’m an actor think of yourself as the casting director's assistant. How are you going to help them? You help them by telling them that you're the person for the part and how you do that.
For example on a submission on [inaudible 44:14] you take a clip that is right for the role that you're submitting for and, very important thing is that you write a good cover note. So you basically tell them in as short a way as possible that you are this Scottish spinster type for example and what you can do. By using the breakdown, you used to work with the breakdown and it helps them because the big thing is they get thousands of submissions and they don't have a long time. So it's about showing them as quickly as possible that you're right for the part. That's been huge for me. Learning about writing the cover notes helped me get more auditions definitely. I also think, don't be afraid. People are like what if I submit for this and I do? What's the harm? They're going to delete the email and not going to open your submission? Be bold. If you know somebody who knows somebody don't be afraid to ask can you get me in for this? All that someone could say is no, and they say yes you’re going to get an audition. That's the important thing.
Martin: Yeah. I love that, it's excellent advice. My mostly final question is just in terms of general advice. If you had to give some advice to an actor who feels like they're stuck in their career, what would it be? Is there anything that an actor should avoid doing?
Polly: I think mainly online presence is really paramount. I said this before, Meryl Streep doesn't need a website, but you do. You should have a website. You should have clips on that. You should have your resume, all of those things. You should certainly be an Actor’s Access. You need to be out there. One of the first questions I ask in one of my workshops is, do you know what happens if somebody could Google it? I happen to be lucky that there is no one else is called Polly Mckie. But you want the professional thing which is to come up first. You want your website to come up, not something about your social life. But the other thing I think is that you also have to show that you're a real human being and not just an actor. On my social media of course I try to promote myself, but I also show my real life, show my niece and nephews and all of those things. Because they want to work with a real human being, not some plastic actor. Things not to do, I think this is huge and I see it so often just really try not to be negative on Facebook or social media in general.
So I post if I go and see something at theater, I think it's important to be out there and see art cause that's another great way. You look at who cast plays and you can send them an email or a postcard say I just saw this play, what a brilliant cast, congratulations. The same proceeding a movie. But the negativity thing... Sometimes I'll post if I’ve seen something and if I haven't liked it and someone else says how was it I'm not going to answer that in public because you don't know. It’s like the 10 minute rule, when you leave the theater you don’t talk about anything until you're safely at a distance. I just think, try not to be negative in general by complaining. People don't want to work with someone who has that negative energy. So that's for me that the big thing, try not to be negative or a downer on social media.
Martin: Yeah, there's a statistic that says that I think 92% of people who are hiring somebody, that would be casting directors and even just regular employers for companies, use social media and look at people's social media profiles during the hiring process. Like you're saying you never know either. If you post some stuff that shows you in a position of doing something that's not appropriate or not friendly or whatever. Or even like you're saying, saying something negative about a production. If that casting director who you just saw is looking at you and they see that you just said something bad about our production they were involved in…
Polly: Exactly. Don't get me wrong, it's tempting. But save those conversations for when you go for a drink with your friends.
Martin: Totally. That's really, really excellent advice. Is there anything else that you'd like to finish up by saying? In addition to that, I'd also like you to just briefly tell us a little bit more about The Actor's Friend program that you have.
Polly: I think the takeaway from all of this is just try to keep your spirits up. One of my other tips is find something fun to do after an audition because I think it can be so dark. I sometimes go and see a movie or something that I have to switch my phone off so that I'm not constantly checking. I think that we just have to support each other and remember that it's difficult. But we are also lucky enough to be doing what we love, there's a passion. I feel very passionately about helping other actors too, which is why I started The Actor's Friend. I get excited when people take my class and I give them these tools. I can't wave a magic wand and make you a movie star, but I can give them tools to help them to get into the room. That's what brings me joy. I find it really helps me too cause when I teach the class I get motivated and I see things. I'll tell them you need to label your clips differently. Then I think, "Oh, I need to do that on my side too." So it motivates me to practice what I preach. I'll get a text from a student or an email saying that they got an addition using something that I've taught them and that's really exciting.
Martin: That's awesome. That's pretty much it for the interview. On behalf of everybody listening to this and definitely on behalf of myself, I really want to thank you. It was really, really nice to hear the perspective from somebody who actually teaches actors some of these things and how to connect with casting directors and all of that. There's a ton of really, really helpful information in this. Thank you so much for doing this.
Polly: It’s been a pleasure. Thank you!